Simple: Imperial Stout

[sibelman]

Doesn't apply when starting the process with liquid yeast though

Maybe you can say more about re-use of yeast that was dry vs liquid. I have been using Imperial (liquid) for the most part.

 

[Miraculix]

Maybe you can say more about re-use of yeast that was dry vs liquid. I have been using Imperial (liquid) for the most part.

Dry seems to improve with later generations, liquid doesn't. Not much more to say about it. I'm going to try in the future to start a stepped starter with a small amount of dry yeast to see if that makes a difference compared to just throwing in the whole pack into the wort instead.

 

[sibelman]

Dry seems to improve with later generations, liquid doesn't. Not much more to say about it.

Curious.

Lately, people's preference for liquid yeasts seems to have faded somewhat as the available variety of dry yeasts has grown.

I've been too lazy or focused on other things to pursue split batches for comparison's sake. I'm grateful for the benefit of others' experience, such as yours, @Miraculix.

I sometimes enjoy estery British styles (Imperial Pub!) but, given my general preference for clean yeast, I'd probably choose a dry 'Chico' such as US-05 for my first re-use attempt.

 

[BongoYodeler]

It surely would. I'd recommend s04 though, as that is my personal dry dark beer favourite. Should also work very well in your amber.

Thanks. I see on the Fermentus website S04 "Produces balanced fruity and floral notes." Since I really like the neutral profile that US-05 brings to my amber ale, plus I'm not looking for fruity or floral notes in my imperial stout, I would question whether it's the right yeast in this situation. To be fair though I've never used S04, so I can't speak from experience.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Without a ton of experience with other yeasts in big dark ales, I do enjoy my Notty RIS and a few batches of strong Scotch a la Traquair.

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks. I see on the Fermentus website S04 "Produces balanced fruity and floral notes." Since I really like the neutral profile that US-05 brings to my amber ale, plus I'm not looking for fruity or floral notes in my imperial stout, I would question whether it's the right yeast in this situation. To be fair though I've never used S04, so I can't speak from experience.

That's marketing blabla if you ask me. It's fairly clean and floccs really well. It doesn't attenuate as extreme as 05 does and it's not quite as neutral. But that's exactly what I like it for in a dark beer.

I've never experienced something that resembles even a hint of floral notes from it though....

 

[Miraculix]

Without a ton of experience with other yeasts in big dark ales, I do enjoy my Notty RIS and a few batches of strong Scotch a la Traquair.

Can't go wrong with Notti! Probably my most used yeast at the moment. I just like 04 a tad bit better for dark beers. But Notti would also be an excellent choice.

 

[sibelman]

In my case, it's likely the second, stronger beer will be a DIPA. Maybe US-04 would be an interesting variation.

 

[yard_bird]

If anyone is interested, this is how brew day went. I'll try to remember to post bottling and (hopefully) some tasting notes when this gets completed.
10# Maris Otter
2# Brown malt
1# Black malt
1# No. 3 Invert at 15 minutes
1# D-180 sugar added around day 4

Mashed at 150 for 1 hour.

70 IBU of Magnum at 60 minutes
20 IBU of Cluster and yeast nutrient at 15 minutes

3.6gallons of 1.110 went into the fermenter. Adding the D-180 around day 4 should add another 0.008.

Pitched 3 packs of Nottingham at 58F. 60 sec of O2. Fermentation about 18 hours later, fermenter set to 62F. Will probably end up ramping this to 65 or 68 towards the end of fermentation. Thanks all for your contributions!

 

[hungupdown]

If anyone is interested, this is how brew day went. I'll try to remember to post bottling and (hopefully) some tasting notes when this gets completed.
10# Maris Otter
2# Brown malt
1# Black malt
1# No. 3 Invert at 15 minutes
1# D-180 sugar added around day 4

Mashed at 150 for 1 hour.

70 IBU of Magnum at 60 minutes
20 IBU of Cluster and yeast nutrient at 15 minutes

3.6gallons of 1.110 went into the fermenter. Adding the D-180 around day 4 should add another 0.008.

Pitched 3 packs of Nottingham at 58F. 60 sec of O2. Fermentation about 18 hours later, fermenter set to 62F. Will probably end up ramping this to 65 or 68 towards the end of fermentation. Thanks all for your contributions!

Would be interested to hear how it goes direct from yeast packs.
I started a RIS with Nottingham 2 weeks ago, using Notti cake from small beer started 5 days earlier. Was 20L partial mash; OG 1.128 inc 3l LME; + 1.1kg total dextrose additions so far, giving corrected OG 1.149; currently at SG 1.022.

 

[yard_bird]

Would be interested to hear how it goes direct from yeast packs.
I started a RIS with Nottingham 2 weeks ago, using Notti cake from small beer started 5 days earlier. Was 20L partial mash; OG 1.128 inc 3l LME; + 1.1kg total dextrose additions so far, giving corrected OG 1.149; currently at SG 1.022.

Looks promising so far. I added 60sec of O2 before pitching the three packs of Nottingham, and an additional 60sec 12hrs later. Fermentation so far has been explosive, I have two blow offs going into a jug of sanitizer. Had to clear the lines a couple times since krausen had accumulated in them. 3.5 gallons of wort was crawling out of the 5gallon fermenter.

Beer is now at 63F and no longer clogging the lines. May switch to airlock and add the D-180 in a day or two. Ramp to 65-68 as fermentation slows.

That is an amazing attenuation on your stout, have you had a chance to sample it? Trying to imagine the balance of a stout that big with 85% attenuation.

 

[yard_bird]

Just over a week after pitching and visible fermentation seems to have slowed/stopped. Added the pound of D-180 two days ago. Fermentation kicked up a little, free rise from 66F to 68F. Sitting at 71F in the chamber. Visible fermentation indicators all but stopped this morning.

Haven’t done a gravity reading because it’s in a glass carboy and I don’t really have a good way of limiting O2 when I thief a sample. It’s on a couple oak balls now so I’ve got a few weeks-ish to go before bottling anyways and will report FG then. Pretty impressed with the three packs of Nottingham and two doses of O2 (though I guess the truth will really reveal itself when I take/taste an FG sample).

 

[hungupdown]

That is an amazing attenuation on your stout, have you had a chance to sample it? Trying to imagine the balance of a stout that big with 85% attenuation.

Hadn't tried calculating, but Nottingham seems a good bet for achieving high ABVs.

My ferment (on small beer cake) was very explosive, 20L in in a 30L bucket. 8 hours later (middle of the night) - bucket lid suspended 6 inches above bucket, on krausen, and mess on floor (having overwhelmed the drip saucer).
So split to 2x10L, each in 30L buckets. At dextrose additions, both would foam up from 10L to 25L! Then to secondary fermenter after 5 days.

Now 23 days: with additional 1100g dextrose, the effective corrected OG is 1149. Present Brix is 17.3%, giving corrected FG 1024, ABV 16.4%, attenuation 82%. But hydrometer says 1.010, giving ABV 18%, attenuation 92%.
Target FG was 1018.

Small samples tried when measuring. Bit on the harsh side, but was lovely with the extra sweetness, when sampled immediately after one of the sugar additions (last addition 8 days ago).
Was trying to get something like the Cromarty ANNIVERSARY XI · BARREL AGED IMPERIAL STOUT 16.58%, aged in mix of bourbon and wine barrels.

Hard to know, when best to stop adding dextrose to secondary. Maybe sweeter would be nice, but at the moment, it would still erupt if I added more dextrose (I guess from the enzymes already created). If taken too far, it then might not ferment the priming sugar.

 

[yard_bird]

Today is bottling day. Prepping a couple grams of CBC-1 for packaging (aiming for about 2 volumes). FG is 1.022. Hydrometer sample is pretty approachable, though it is too bitter for now. Lots of flavors bouncing around, hoping some solitude in the cellar smooths some stuff out over the next couple of months. Was going to add some oaked bourbon at bottling but don't want to further stress the yeast, next time I'll just increase the volume of oak and contact time.

Thanks all for your help!

 

[yard_bird]

Decided to open one of these after about two months in bottles. Unsurprisingly, not very carbonated yet, but nearly everything else I’m looking for. I really like the brown malt in this, and the invert is nice as well (I think?). Roasty, bitterness is evening out a bit, toffee, some toasted oak. I thought I picked up on a dried cherry/dark fruit flavor which might be from the D-180 and hopefully isn’t oxidation. I’m rebrewing this with all invert for sugar next week and will be curious to see if that’s it’s still there. I thought the 1.022 would be too low for this one but so far, so good.

 

[yard_bird]

Rebrewed this with a few tweaks:
10# MO
1# brown malt
1# roast barley
0.5# pale chocolate
0.25# C60
1.5# invert

A bunch of US-05

(1.110 OG/3.25gal)

It’ll be good I think to see what I like about the previous batch vs this one. I think something in the middle would be best but that remains to be seen.

There’s a good toasted sugar character (invert?) that I like in the previous, hoping upping it will make it more pronounced.m in this batch. No oak this time because I need the fermenter, but might add some oaked up bourbon at bottling.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Rebrewed this with a few tweaks:
... 1.5# invert ...

There’s a good toasted sugar character (invert?) that I like in the previous, hoping upping it will make it more pronounced.m in this batch. No oak this time because I need the fermenter, but might add some oaked up bourbon at bottling.

How big of a pain/mess was making the invert sugar? What color level did you do? I would really like to hear your thoughts on how this batch compares to your first one, where you used D-180, because I've got some D-180 myself and was thinking about using it instead of actual invert in the Courage recipe...

 

[yard_bird]

Invert was pretty easy considering how expensive the candi sugars can be. I believe there is a link to that on page one of this thread, and a link to another thread RE: Courage. After temp is reached, I stuck it in my preheated oven (in preheated jars) until I got the color I wanted (3ish hours). Highly recommend making a couple of pounds because making a lot takes about the same amount of time as making a little.

I cooked until I got a flavor I liked instead of color, but it’s a deep black red. Flavors are kind of like toasted marshmallow/dried red fruit. Maybe like a blend of D180 and a mid range candi color.

My first one is pretty good. Even if it’s not yet fully carbonated the sample was motivation enough to rebrew with what I had on hand.

 

[corkybstewart]

I do not. These days, I'd do as suggested above.



Yum, mild. Or a simple Irish Dry Stout. The best starter is a drinkable one.

In the good old days when I brewed and drank a lot more than now my method was to brew a low OG brown(1.045), pitch Porter wort on that yeast cake to get a 6-7% ABV porter, then my massive 1.110 Imperial stout got pitched on top of that yeast-three beers on 2 packs of Nottingham. Controlling the fermentation temp was the key for the Imperial stout, but I brew in a stainless conical with thermowell in an airconditioned insulated box so as long as I started with the wort chilled to around 55F and I slowly let the temp rise it turned out great.
I had a similar process for my barleywine, starting with a low alcohol pale ale. I also found that using the yeast 3 times without cleaning the fermenter was about the limit.

 

[yard_bird]

Four months in the bottle. Still not really carbonated, which is mostly fine. Better than being over carbonated. Glad I rebrewed this. Bitterness has mostly moved to the background. Huge mouthfeel. Dark chocolate, burnt sugar, and oak aroma. Similar taste, more balanced than it was at bottling. I’m hoping that the rebrew is 1) slightly more carbonated, 2) higher level of burnt sugar. Not more burnt, but maybe a pound of invert 2 and a pound of invert 3 or 4. There’s a graham cracker sweet/crispy/savory bit that I like in Prairie Bomb! (one of my favorites) so I’m on the right track.

Might be brewing this every 6-12months from here on out to dial it in and basically supply me with imperial stout for life. This time around I added some bourbon that had some cinnamon/nutmeg/cloves soaking in it to about 6bottles after I realized I forgot to brew a pumpkin beer this year!

Looking for a name to keep track of the different versions but I might just put a month/year on the bottles. Next one will get opened around Christmas!

 

[hottpeper13]

I use a series name like some breweries do (Smokestack, My Turn) mine is Stronger Then Dirt, you know what the bottle cap says; STD, then the year. I brew one for Black Friday release in October of the previous year, sits for 6-8 months in a barrel. I add 4 oz of maple syrup and 3 grams of CBC yeast to the bucket at bottling time.

 

[yard_bird]

Greetings, thought I’d provide an update.

Five months in the bottle and now there’s a fruitiness that I get with big red wine like dark cherry, plum. Not quite raisin/fig that you see in port. Not sure if it’s the D-180 shining through, or oxidation. Not any more carbed, just a tiny hiss. Still good and stouty mouthfeel but the red fruit steps on the flavor a bit. Works for now.

Any hope that this gets carbed? Thought I used the CBC-1 correctly at bottling, maybe Lalvin-1118 next time?

Luckily I rebrewed (no barrel treatment though) without D-180 in June. This one has a minor foam cap. Massive and sticky mouthfeel. Aroma is strong with vanilla and cheesecake(?) and toffee with some underlying roast. Flavor is roast first, vanilla/toffee, finishes with some sweetness and hop bitterness. Personally I would cut the invert sugar 25% when I rebrew this and hit it with some oak cubes, then it may be my favorite interpretation of this style.

 

[mac_1103]

Any hope that this gets carbed? Thought I used the CBC-1 correctly at bottling, maybe Lalvin-1118 next time?

If I'm following the thread correctly, you might be pushing the limit of the alcohol tolerance of CBC-1 for bottle conditioning. Lallemand says "12-14% ABV for cask and bottle conditioning; 18% ABV for cider, mead and hard seltzer." OTOH, you might also run into the same issue with EC-1118 since it has the same alcohol tolerance for wine that CBC-1 has for cider or mead. That's just a really harsh environment that you're pitching the conditioning yeast into.

 

[sibelman]

Any hope that this gets carbed?

After 5 months in he bottle, I'm sorry to say that I wouldn't expect much more carbonation. But big beers can surprise a person.

 

[yard_bird]

Thanks for the replies. The ingredient is back off on 25% is my invert sugar. Should drop abv to about ~10% which hopefully will lead to carbonated beer next go around.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Any hope that this gets carbed? Thought I used the CBC-1 correctly at bottling, maybe Lalvin-1118 next time?

I think you said the OG was 1.110, what was the FG? Your beer is definitely in the 11 to 13% abv range (depending on which abv calculator you use), which ec-1118 can definitely handle, and cbc-1 would be getting close to it's abv tolerance limit.

What was your priming sugar? If you used DME, those bottling yeasts won't touch anything but plain old sugar.

A worthwhile (imho) experiment would be to open a bottle, add a quarter-teaspoon of sugar, and re-cap. Leave it out somewhere warm for 2 weeks. If you still don't have any more carbonation, then you could try adding a couple of tiny grains of powdered ec-1118, recap, and do the 2 weeks warm wait, again.

 

[yard_bird]

FG was 1.023 if memory serves. I think next time I’ll just go with Lalvin as I’ve had luck getting it up to ~17%. I always use table sugar for priming. Lesson learned. Luckily I’m fine with minimal CO2 on something like this, but would not be surprised if it had a shorter shelf life (will save O2 discussion for that mega thread).

Thanks all for your help. Next batch will be dialed in recipe and process wise!

 

[mac_1103]

Your beer is definitely in the 11 to 13% abv range (depending on which abv calculator you use), which ec-1118 can definitely handle, and cbc-1 would be getting close to it's abv tolerance limit.

CBC-1 has a stated alcohol tolerance of 18% for primary fermentation of cider or mead. EC-1118 has a stated alcohol tolerance of 18% for primary fermentation of wine. CBC-1 has a stated alcohol tolerance of 12-14% for bottle or cask conditioning. I don't think we can assume that EC-1118 would have a higher alcohol tolerance for bottle or cask conditioning.

I always use table sugar for priming. Lesson learned.

Table sugar should be OK although corn sugar might be better. Priming with DME and CBC-1 wouldn't work too well since only about 13% of the carbohydrate is glucose. Or to put it another way, sucrose might not work as well as glucose, but maltose won't work at all.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

CBC-1 has a stated alcohol tolerance of 18% for primary fermentation of cider or mead. EC-1118 has a stated alcohol tolerance of 18% for primary fermentation of wine. CBC-1 has a stated alcohol tolerance of 12-14% for bottle or cask conditioning. I don't think we can assume that EC-1118 would have a higher alcohol tolerance for bottle or cask conditioning.

Hmmm, maybe we can talk @yard_bird into trying the test I proposed (first just add a little sugar, then wait). Next try adding a tiny amount of cbc-1, and if still flat, try once more with ec-1118...

For science!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

There was a recent topic on re-pitching CBC-1 (link) with a happy ending. Note that the OP in that topic was using 22 oz bottles.