Simple Apple Jack.

[T_Baggins]

2 Gals Apple cider (I used Louisburg because the Rees store was closed)
10 cans Old Orchard concentrate
EC-1118

Because this will jacked, I didn't mind using the alternative cider but next time I will NOT deviate from my local provider!

Cider SG was around 1.040, brought it up to 1.090@55F (1.0895 corrected)
with concentrate (I probably could have added 5 more cans since I'm using 1118)

It's a bit more expensive than using plain sugar, but I want to test for flavor by using only sugars produced by the apple.

When it's dry it'll go into the "jacker" for a few days. I'm working on a simple strainer/container that will fit in the "jacker" so the alcohol can be sifted out of the slushy goodness. I will record FG and then accurately measure my volumes before and after the jack in hopes of finding a good approximate ABV reading.

 

[mdabbles]

On a good track. Let it age a while and it will be like gold

 

[T_Baggins]

On a good track. Let it age a while and it will be like gold

Should I let it age before or after jacking it?

 

[mdabbles]

Should I let it age before or after jacking it?

I jack it, then age in bottles. - I have one a year old - just gets better with time.

 

[phug]

Aging after jacking frees up more bottles for other things. Plus with the higher alcohol it should be more resistant to infection.



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[T_Baggins]

thanks phug mdabbles, assuming my fermentation gets to say 12%... and I use a typical homestyle jacking device,what kind of final ABV do think could be achieved?

 

[mdabbles]

thanks phug mdabbles, assuming my fermentation gets to say 12%... and I use a typical homestyle jacking device,what kind of final ABV do think could be achieved?

I halved my volume, assuming all the aunt ethyl was left behind, doubled mine from 11.8 % to 23.6%.

 

[T_Baggins]

so here I am, secondary complete. I had a good 1/4" or better layer of sludge when I racked. Then just now re-racked 1 of 3 jugs. only this time there was maybe 1/16" or less of lees, but the cider does not look like it has cleared even a smidge. The one I just racked I put in the fridge to cold crash it, but may have to resort to sparkolloid? (Never used the stuff b4) As stated in the beginning of this thread, I used Louisburg cider which I did not to, could this inferior product be the cause, or the fact that I added 10 cans of concentrate to 3 gals of must?

 

[T_Baggins]

Yeah, this recipe is CRAP.

 

[HumulusHead]

How so?


Sent from myPhone

 

[T_Baggins]

so much concentrate is just too damn much apple solids...won't clear and smells funny. Long since let my airlocks dry up and it spoiled anyhow. I really don't care since the cider was CRAP to start with as well.

 

[MindenMan]

I recently made a 2 gallon batch of high proof hard cider, higher proof than I normally do. The cider has been in the freezer, for about three days. I opened the freezer lid and looked at the cider,and there was a 1/2" layer of liquid apple jack floating on top, and the rest of the jug was frozen solid. There appears to be bubbles of apple jack coming up from the bottom, along the sides to increase the liquid layer. Has anybody else ever have this crazy **** happen before? If so, how did your yours turn out?

 

[MindenMan]

Calculating ABV is a guessing game at best. One gallon of 10% ABV cider, theoretically has 12.8 ounces of 200 proof pure alcohol. Freeze concentrating will not allow just the pure alcohol to be poured off, but if thawed slowly enough and contained, the first 12 ounces are going to be very high ABV, and if collecting after that, stopping just before the ice loses all it color, will still be higher than average hard cider.

 

[T_Baggins]

I usually ferment straight to 16% then jack it. I tend to consume mine while it is still green cuz it's just so dang good. I have a friend that I gave 2 litres of the simple wine well over a year ago. He drank sparingly from it and had about 2 inches left in the bottom of the bottle. Even with all that head space, it was GD DELICIOUS!!! The way I figured it, last time I jacked some, I got about 1/3 of my volume back. So let's call it 16% from the start, and assume you have 1 liter (1000 ml)... 16% of 1000 is 160. So 160 ml of the whole is alc. Now if we divide the 1000 ml by 3 (because I got 1/3 vol back) we get a total of 333.3333_______ . Let's just call it 333. 1% of 333 ml is 333/100= 3.33 so if 160 of the 3.33's is alc.... 160/3.33 =48.048048048....blah blah blah

I estimate 48 % (not taking into account the fact that the portion that didn't freeze isnt pure alc) but I don't think it turns out in reality anywhere near that, but it's not out of range to think 30% ABV could be achieved easily???

 

[orangehero]

The concentration depends on how cold you freezer can get. At -10°C you're looking at theoretically maximum 24% abv, and in reality probably a bit less than that because the process is complex and there is quite a bit of loss of ethanol. In a normal houshold freezer you aren't going to get anywhere near 48% abv.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_freezing
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-01/beersci-how-make-strong-beer-stronger
http://www.themadscienceblog.com/2014/01/chemistry-of-beer-part-ii-freezing.html
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/freeze-distillation-estimating-final-abv-221756/#post2599921

 

[T_Baggins]

^^^true

 

[T_Baggins]

The concentration depends on how cold you freezer can get. At -10°C you're looking at theoretically maximum 24% abv, and in reality probably a bit less than that because the process is complex and there is quite a bit of loss of ethanol. In a normal houshold freezer you aren't going to get anywhere near 48% abv.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_freezing
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-01/beersci-how-make-strong-beer-stronger
http://www.themadscienceblog.com/2014/01/chemistry-of-beer-part-ii-freezing.html
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/freeze-distillation-estimating-final-abv-221756/#post2599921

so I recently cracked open a bottle of the strawberry I had jacked about 8 months ago .... for sh!ts n giggles I put some in the vinometer. The maximum number on the scale is 25, the sample quickly charged past 25 off the chart....maybe half an inch past. I figure I should have at least 30%

 

[Bearclaw215]

Vinometers is based on the capillar working of fluids. However a fluid with sugar dissolved in it has a very different cappilar working as a fluid without. It's only really ok-ish for absolutely bone dry wine.
So pretty much that makes a vinometer totally unreliable as you never know how much sugar is in your finished wine, especially after freeze concentrating. The science is right sadly as i wish halfing my volume would double my abv too.

 

[schwiz]

2 Gals Apple cider (I used Louisburg because the Rees store was closed)
10 cans Old Orchard concentrate
EC-1118

Because this will jacked, I didn't mind using the alternative cider but next time I will NOT deviate from my local provider!

Cider SG was around 1.040, brought it up to 1.090@55F (1.0895 corrected)
with concentrate (I probably could have added 5 more cans since I'm using 1118)

It's a bit more expensive than using plain sugar, but I want to test for flavor by using only sugars produced by the apple.

When it's dry it'll go into the "jacker" for a few days. I'm working on a simple strainer/container that will fit in the "jacker" so the alcohol can be sifted out of the slushy goodness. I will record FG and then accurately measure my volumes before and after the jack in hopes of finding a good approximate ABV reading.

Wow awesome Topeka I go with Rees most of the time although I was disappointed with the last 16 gallons I picked up from them. It wasn't nearly as tart as everything else I've got from them. Today I learned that Louisburg will sell cider at 5.50 a gallon raw if you buy 20+ gallons and supply your own buckets. Going to try that deal out. Although I already got 21 gallons of Rees happily bubbling away. We should trade a few bottles!

 

[T_Baggins]

Wow awesome Topeka I go with Rees most of the time although I was disappointed with the last 16 gallons I picked up from them. It wasn't nearly as tart as everything else I've got from them. Today I learned that Louisburg will sell cider at 5.50 a gallon raw if you buy 20+ gallons and supply your own buckets. Going to try that deal out. Although I already got 21 gallons of Rees happily bubbling away. We should trade a few bottles!

I'm on day 2 of a fresh 15 gal batch of the REES. I do notice this year's cider doesn't seem to taste a sweet, but none the less I trust it FAR better than Lousiburg. Yeah I'd be down to swap a few bottles, I figure around Christmas might the earliest I think it might be truly ready for consumption...

 

[T_Baggins]

Vinometers is based on the capillar working of fluids. However a fluid with sugar dissolved in it has a very different cappilar working as a fluid without. It's only really ok-ish for absolutely bone dry wine.
So pretty much that makes a vinometer totally unreliable as you never know how much sugar is in your finished wine, especially after freeze concentrating. The science is right sadly as i wish halfing my volume would double my abv too.

I dry it to .998

 

[Bearclaw215]

I dry it to .998

Your still don't know how much suger is left and you're concentrating that unknown amount. I'm just getting at that particular wine could've gone to .996 instead of .998, that's 2 points of sugar that get concentrated into something like 6-8 points worth maybe more and will throw that reading off quite a bit. The vin should give you an ok reading before jacking but after it's not reliable after due to those concentrated sugars.
If you have a normal freezer you're prolly at 20-24% which is still pretty awesome and not a drink to take lightly. Now if you got some dry ice and used it to help concentrate, which could be really cool to experiment with, you could get pretty high abv I'd bet hitting a 30%+ drink pretty easy due to the extreme temps.

 

[schwiz]

I'm on day 2 of a fresh 15 gal batch of the REES. I do notice this year's cider doesn't seem to taste a sweet, but none the less I trust it FAR better than Lousiburg. Yeah I'd be down to swap a few bottles, I figure around Christmas might the earliest I think it might be truly ready for consumption...

Well I got some early in the season and it had the acid/sweetness I'm used to but around octoberfest they had an event and sold lots of cider. I came in during it and they wouldn't sell me 16 gallons, told me they had to save it for other people.

So they put me on back order and I came in a few days later to pick it up. It wasn't anything like I'm used to so I assume they sold everything and didn't have their normal apples harvested to press yet. But yeah around xmas I should be ready to trade some bottles for sure.

 

[T_Baggins]

Your still don't know how much suger is left and you're concentrating that unknown amount. I'm just getting at that particular wine could've gone to .996 instead of .998, that's 2 points of sugar that get concentrated into something like 6-8 points worth maybe more and will throw that reading off quite a bit. The vin should give you an ok reading before jacking but after it's not reliable after due to those concentrated sugars.
If you have a normal freezer you're prolly at 20-24% which is still pretty awesome and not a drink to take lightly. Now if you got some dry ice and used it to help concentrate, which could be really cool to experiment with, you could get pretty high abv I'd bet hitting a 30%+ drink pretty easy due to the extreme temps.

I am in the design process of a purpose built jacker that involves dry ice and something similar to a wort chiller.

 

[T_Baggins]

Well I got some early in the season and it had the acid/sweetness I'm used to but around octoberfest they had an event and sold lots of cider. I came in during it and they wouldn't sell me 16 gallons, told me they had to save it for other people.

So they put me on back order and I came in a few days later to pick it up. It wasn't anything like I'm used to so I assume they sold everything and didn't have their normal apples harvested to press yet. But yeah around xmas I should be ready to trade some bottles for sure.

:rockin:

 

[Bearclaw215]

I am in the design process of a purpose built jacker that involves dry ice and something similar to a wort chiller.

I demand pics! I'm curious now. Are you going for a immersion or plate style? I've seen people surrounding a bucket with the stuff but not a chiller

 

[T_Baggins]

I demand pics! I'm curious now. Are you going for a immersion or plate style? I've seen people surrounding a bucket with the stuff but not a chiller

As soon as I have something workable I'll do just that. May even do an article on it. Right now I need to figure out what to use for a low pressure liquid refrigerant...

 

[T_Baggins]

well now, I think some 190 proof ever clear should work well as a refrigerant.

 

[Bearclaw215]

Glycol should work.

 

[T_Baggins]

Glycol is no good...only to around -60F. 190 proof alcohol is good to -143F!

 

[schwiz]

How long does the freezing usually take?? Put 3 gallons in the freezer at around -15F and 48 hours later its barely even slushy.

 

[MindenMan]

Depending on how high the ABV% is will generally determine how fast it will freeze. It can also depend on what the container is made of, what is it's shape, and is it touching another container, etc. It could take 3 days, it could take 5. If your cider is very high proof, keep a watch on it, it may surprise you. My last 3 batches of high proof acted oddly; day 1 a little ice, day 2 more ice, day 3 very icy, day 4 almost frozen solid, day 5 was a surprise!, there was a 1/2" deep pool of golden liquid floating on the top. I had never seen that happen before, and I was intrigued, so I tasted it. It burned all the way down and then some. Quite cool, actually.

 

[schwiz]

Thanks! The ABV is probably around 7% and the containers are a very heavy plastic sort of like the container arizona tea gallons come in.

 

[schwiz]

Damn it! Its less frozen today than it was yesterday! I think the problem is my freezer is in the garage and its cold out so the freezer isn't turning on. But not cold enough out to freeze cider. Grrrr

 

[T_Baggins]

3 gallons is a LOT to put in a conventional freezer all at once. I usually use a 2 liter pop bottle. When it freezes, I turn it upside down, over a collection bowl then poke a good hole in the bottom (now on top) this lets it flow quickly. Then as quickly as I can I cut the bottle open and put the slush in a white Tshirt and twist it up tight and give the ball a good squeeze then no more. I think my purpose built jacker should incorporate a centrifugal de-icer that operates in the freeze.

 

[schwiz]

Alright I'll try one gallon at a time and see if that makes a difference. I threw one gallon out on the porch last night and it was nice an icey when I woke up this morning. Not as cold tonight though.

 

[MarkKF]

I usually wait til my weather app. says I have a week in the teens ahead of me. I start with 5 gal. containers and every time I filter out some ice I loose one.