Silky and Thick Water for Imperial Stout

[braindead]

Looking for a water profile along the style of Evil Twin Jesus etc.
Nice tar like water profile.
Thx

 

[ajdelange]

Those properties don't come from the water but from the malts. But do make sure the chloride level is healthy to help the malts provide full body.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

A.J., is there a recommended chloride ion ppm or mEq level (or range) that you would target for full body?

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

+1 for a thread title that almost made me gag thinking about what water would taste like as described.

 

[Jayjay1976]

+1 for a thread title that almost made me gag thinking about what water would taste like as described.

Drool, in my mind. Gag.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I wish I knew how Hopin' Frog makes their spectacular (to me at least) B.O.R.I.S. (Bodacious Oatmeal Russian Imperial Stout) and the other offshoots within its line so deliciously thick and chewy. Almost syrup like on the palate.

 

[ajdelange]

A.J., is there a recommended chloride ion ppm or mEq level (or range) that you would target for full body?

> 50?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

> 50?

And skip the sulfate, and ditto the magnesium, right?

Would 100 ppm (give or take a bit) be going overboard on the chloride ion?

I'm thinking along the lines of adding CaCl2 until Ca++ hits 50 ppm, then adding NaCl until the chloride ion (Cl-) hits 100 ppm. It doesn't require much NaCl to get the Cl- to 100 ppm after hitting 50 ppm calcium with CaCl2.

 

[mabrungard]

On the order of 150 ppm chloride and DON'T skip the sulfate. Others have tried high chloride without sulfate, but have noted that they find the effects less satisfying than when a modest sulfate content is included. Roughly 75 ppm sulfate seems to be popular in tandem with the 150 ppm chloride in NEIPA.

 

[ajdelange]

I'd advise, as I always do, skipping the sulfate until you have verified that you like what it does. Now if you know, from your other brewing, that you do, by all means go ahead with some.

 

[couchsending]

Final gravity over 1.040 and lots of Sodium.

 

[Braufessor]

I wish I knew how Hopin' Frog makes their spectacular (to me at least) B.O.R.I.S. (Bodacious Oatmeal Russian Imperial Stout) and the other offshoots within its line so deliciously thick and chewy. Almost syrup like on the palate.

A lot of those beers like that (dark lord, toppling Goliath, etc.) have finishing gravitates in the 1.040-1.060 range. They start very high.... in the 1.125 range. So, start with a super viscous, high gravity RIS wort.... have some DME on hand to bump up gravity as needed.
When I brew something like this, I actually do two mashes and one boil. identical 16 pound grainbills in both mashes. Run off first mash, start boil. Start mash #2. When second mash is done, run it off into already boiling kettle and continue to boil it down.... like making syrup.
Use a yeast like 1968/002...... that will poop out with 1.040-1.060 final gravity in a beer like this. Keep temperature under control. High gravity beers like this generate a ton of heat in ferment.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

A lot of those beers like that (dark lord, toppling Goliath, etc.) have finishing gravitates in the 1.040-1.060 range. They start very high.... in the 1.125 range. So, start with a super viscous, high gravity RIS wort.... have some DME on hand to bump up gravity as needed.
When I brew something like this, I actually do two mashes and one boil. identical 16 pound grainbills in both mashes. Run off first mash, start boil. Start mash #2. When second mash is done, run it off into already boiling kettle and continue to boil it down.... like making syrup.
Use a yeast like 1968/002...... that will poop out with 1.040-1.060 final gravity in a beer like this. Keep temperature under control. High gravity beers like this generate a ton of heat in ferment.

Excellent advice. Thank you.

 

[Braufessor]

Also.... when I brew this ( coming up in a few weeks)..... I like to finish with 8 gallons of 1.125 wort in a 10 gallon kettle. I ferment 2 x 4 gallon batches or so in 2 x cornies, or 2 x fermenters. I let it ferment out for about 3 weeks , and then I transfer it to a 5 gallon keg and a 3 gallon keg as a secondary. I let it sit till October-November or so (@35 degrees). Then, I rack it 3 gallons or 2.5 gallons at a time (I have some2.5 and 3 gallon kegs) onto things like coffee, or maple, or vanilla or oak..... or whatever combination I want...... so that way I can turn one batch of RIS into about 3 different variants. I force carb in kegs and bottle some, or keep some on tap. But, Doing it this way gives me a bunch of RIS base in October, and then I can do what I want with it over the winter.

Oh..... and water..... not a big deal... I use a high bicarbonate tap water with bicarbonate up in the 200 range. Calcium, chloride, sulfate in the 50 range. Mash pH in the 5.5 range if you can. I have very high bicarbonate tap water here.... so, I do like 60-80 % tap water and 20-40% RO. The high bicarbonate really seems to round out roast flavors in dark beers.

*** I also collect 4 gallons off of each mash for the RIS, and I collect the second 3-4 gallons of each mash for a partigyle type second runnings beer..... I make a black lager out of it. It is honestly spectacular. So, it is a long brew day. But, I end up with 8 gallons of RIS wort and I end up with 5 gallon batch of black lager. Keep DME on hand to get gravity where you need on both batches. I have multiple burners, so I can be boiling/mashing multiples at one time.

 

[mabrungard]

Oh..... and water..... not a big deal... I use a high bicarbonate tap water with bicarbonate up in the 200 range. Calcium, chloride, sulfate in the 50 range. Mash pH in the 5.5 range if you can. I have very high bicarbonate tap water here.... so, I do like 60-80 % tap water and 20-40% RO. The high bicarbonate really seems to round out roast flavors in dark beers.

Avoiding a low wort pH does substantially improve the perception and enjoyment of most dark beer styles. That's one of the benefits of the hard and alkaline water in the Midwest. I know of a brewery that can't brew a pale beer that's worth a sh*t, but they've taken multiple World Beer Cup and GABF medals with their big stouts. Of course, they don't do anything to their water (see, it can be a good or bad thing).