Show me the esters!

[rockdemon]

The last belgian attempts Ive made has been very weak in esters. Hardly any yeastflavors at all actually, and they have been extremely clear, almost looked filtered.
So im planning on brewing an underpitched dubbel tomorrow. I think I have always overpitched my dubbels before, they have been extremely high attenuated. This recipe has about 15% candisyrup and an OG of 1.067.
According to brewersfriend i need 184 b cells to get the "Pro Brewer 0.75 Ale". If i make a 1 L starter Id get about 175b cells(0.71M vcells/mL/P). would this be too low amount of cells?

 

[LesIsMore]

If it's calling for 184B cells and you're using 175, that's not a big deal. What type of yeast are you using? I just came across this nice chart highlighting different fermentation temperatures of white labs yeast and the characteristics you can get. I'd assume they're going with the same pitching rates and just varying the temperatures of fermentation. If memory serves me correct, there's a chart like this in Brew Like a Monk.

http://www.whitelabs.com/files/belgianchart_0.pdf

 

[rockdemon]

If it's calling for 184B cells and you're using 175, that's not a big deal. What type of yeast are you using? I just came across this nice chart highlighting different fermentation temperatures of white labs yeast and the characteristics you can get. I'd assume they're going with the same pitching rates and just varying the temperatures of fermentation. If memory serves me correct, there's a chart like this in Brew Like a Monk.

http://www.whitelabs.com/files/belgianchart_0.pdf

Great chart! thanks!
Im using the wyeast trappist high gravity. It seems like im always aroung 78F during primary so it must be the pitchrate. ill try with 175B cells.

 

[highgravitybacon]

The last belgian attempts Ive made has been very weak in esters. Hardly any yeastflavors at all actually, and they have been extremely clear, almost looked filtered.
So im planning on brewing an underpitched dubbel tomorrow. I think I have always overpitched my dubbels before, they have been extremely high attenuated. This recipe has about 15% candisyrup and an OG of 1.067.
According to brewersfriend i need 184 b cells to get the "Pro Brewer 0.75 Ale". If i make a 1 L starter Id get about 175b cells(0.71M vcells/mL/P). would this be too low amount of cells?

I don't use a lot of that candi syrup since it's so expensive, but you can dramatically boost your esters by increasing the amount of simple sugars. The material I found recommends glucose rich worts. Whether this means sucrose will suffice, I don't know. But I do know that adding about 10% dextrose to a beer really makes the yeasty goodness shine. I did this with an english bitter and the beer, despite being 1.040, was just scrumptious.

If you're finding that you don't get the results you seek, use different yeast.

 

[BrotherBock]

If you want to underpitch, 175 as opposed to 184 is negligible. Go lower like 125. So use 5/7 (710 ml) of your 1 liter starter. Save the rest and build it up for another batch.

 

[LLBeanJ]

I've had similar issues trying to coax clove from my Belgians. No matter what I did with ferm temp, I could get no noticeable clove. I did find, however, that fruity esters were more pronounced with higher temp fermentations, including a tripel that resembled a Riesling. My most recent Belgian was a dubbel in which I decided to try a lower pitch rate, thinking that overpitching might be the culprit, so I went with a pitch rate of 0.45 and the result was a clove bomb. In fact it was too much, but I attribute that to the strain, WLP550, which tends to favor clove over esters. Next time, I'll do a similar pitch rate (~0.5), but use WLP530 in hopes that I can strike a nicer balance between clove and fruity.

 

[RmikeVT]

I would just pitch the tube/pack.

 

[rockdemon]

I've had similar issues trying to coax clove from my Belgians. No matter what I did with ferm temp, I could get no noticeable clove. I did find, however, that fruity esters were more pronounced with higher temp fermentations, including a tripel that resembled a Riesling. My most recent Belgian was a dubbel in which I decided to try a lower pitch rate, thinking that overpitching might be the culprit, so I went with a pitch rate of 0.45 and the result was a clove bomb. In fact it was too much, but I attribute that to the strain, WLP550, which tends to favor clove over esters. Next time, I'll do a similar pitch rate (~0.5), but use WLP530 in hopes that I can strike a nicer balance between clove and fruity.

So i had a brewday yesterday, used 3/4 of the 1 L starter. Dont really know what kind of underpitch this gives me but maybe 0.6+ ? Maybe even lower since my effeiciency was higher than expected so i got 16L of wort instead of 15.
Im really hoping for alot of esters now, the first time i used the trappist high gravity yeast i got alot of the westmalle characteristics, at that time i mustve underpitched since i used one smackpack for 5 gal of westmalle clone.
My concern now is that it wont attenuate, thats whats keeping me from underpitching. Tried to underpitch a saison and ended up with a 1012 saison which wasnt very nice(aimed for 1005)...

 

[rockdemon]

I would just pitch the tube/pack.

Am i not running a big risk of getting a beer that hasnt attenuated enough when underpitching like that? Ive heard that some of the belgians go as low as 0.25 but they know what theyre doing and i dont...

The only good thing that has come with my overpitched beers is that theyre extremely clear. but Id rather get a tasty beer than a clear one

 

[LLBeanJ]

When underpitching, oxygenation of the wort becomes pretty critical. This will help to ensure that the attenuation goes as expected. I would infuse the wort with pure O2 for 90 seconds.

 

[RM-MN]

Take a read through this short article about a pitch rate experiment. Pay close attention to the actual pitch and to the measured final gravity and see if that helps. http://sciencebrewer.com/2012/03/02/pitching-rate-experiment-part-deux-results/

 

[RmikeVT]

Am i not running a big risk of getting a beer that hasnt attenuated enough when underpitching like that? Ive heard that some of the belgians go as low as 0.25 but they know what theyre doing and i dont...

The only good thing that has come with my overpitched beers is that theyre extremely clear. but Id rather get a tasty beer than a clear one

I typically pitch 1 tube of yeast in my hefe's and belgians. I make sure it is a fresh tube. You can tell with White Labs as they post the best by date four months after they bottle it. So, in November if you get a tube stamped for March best buy, you know it is less than a month old. I oxygenate my wort and I have had very good results with no problems with attenuation or flocculation.

I've read articles and information supporting pitching one tube, aka 100B cells of fresh yeast, I just don't have time to search and site them. You might want to do some research on it and give it a shot. If you are unhappy with you ester profile, pitching 10B less cells isn't going to make much of a difference.

 

[rockdemon]

I typically pitch 1 tube of yeast in my hefe's and belgians. I make sure it is a fresh tube. You can tell with White Labs as they post the best by date four months after they bottle it. So, in November if you get a tube stamped for March best buy, you know it is less than a month old. I oxygenate my wort and I have had very good results with no problems with attenuation or flocculation.



I've read articles and information supporting pitching one tube, aka 100B cells of fresh yeast, I just don't have time to search and site them. You might want to do some research on it and give it a shot. If you are unhappy with you ester profile, pitching 10B less cells isn't going to make much of a difference.

Yeah a fresh smackpack or tube but sometimes i get 2-3 month old yeast. This one was 1 month old. But if you use just 1 tube for a 20L batch I can sure use that amount for 15L. The Next time i get a hold of some fresh yeast ill definitively try just pitching that!


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