Should I mash lower when making pseudo lagers

[MyQuL]

Am I correct in my understanding that lager yeasts can chew through some of the sugars that ale yeasts are unable to. Therefore lagers are often drier than ales.
If that being so, should I mash low when making pseudo lagers using ale yeast?

 

[kh54s10]

If you want a drier beer, mash lower. I would not treat it much different than a pale ale. Maybe a degree or so lower. I would mash the same if I was doing a Pseudo lager - a beer using lager yeast but fermenting at ale temperatures.

 

[dmtaylor]

Am I correct in my understanding that lager yeasts can chew through some of the sugars that ale yeasts are unable to. Therefore lagers are often drier than ales.
If that being so, should I mash low when making pseudo lagers using ale yeast?

I think this is a great idea. Try 148 F for longer than normal, maybe 75-90 minutes.

Another key thing to keep in mind: Brulosophy.com has shown multiple times that WLP029 and W-34/70 perform just as well at warm temperatures as cold temperatures, so yeast selection is also important for making pseudo-lagers. Everyone might tell you to use US-05 or Nottingham ale yeast. Nah, those are pretty fruity. Try other ones.

 

[MyQuL]

I think this is a great idea. Try 148 F for longer than normal, maybe 75-90 minutes.

Another key thing to keep in mind: Brulosophy.com has shown multiple times that WLP029 and W-34/70 perform just as well at warm temperatures as cold temperatures, so yeast selection is also important for making pseudo-lagers. Everyone might tell you to use US-05 or Nottingham ale yeast. Nah, those are pretty fruity. Try other ones.

I was actually going to use Mangrove Jacks Workhorse yeast. I'm aware you can use lager yeast at ale temps but I dont wont any sulphur smells stinking up my apartment. I dont mind a bit of fruityness, it doesnt have to be super clean for me. I'm more envisioning a cross between a blonde ale and a lager

 

[Steveruch]

You can get a very lager like beer using Wyeast's 1764: Pacman.
Back in 2015 I brewed a batch of pilsner and split it into thirds. One of the thirds was fermented with 1764 at 72f. I entered it into a competition as a German pilsner and scored a 37 with no mention of it being ale like, but "A well-rounded, drinkable beer." Another third was fermented with WLP830 also at 72 and got a 36 score as a blonde ale, one judge remarked that it reminded him of a kolsch.
The write up of it (Mar/Apr 2016) in Zymurgy actually got me banned from a small forum that specializes in lager brewing.

 

[Ogri]

You can get a very lager like beer using Wyeast's 1764: Pacman.
Back in 2015 I brewed a batch of pilsner and split it into thirds. One of the thirds was fermented with 1764 at 72f. I entered it into a competition as a German pilsner and scored a 37 with no mention of it being ale like, but "A well-rounded, drinkable beer." Another third was fermented with WLP830 also at 72 and got a 36 score as a blonde ale, one judge remarked that it reminded him of a kolsch.
The write up of it (Mar/Apr 2016) in Zymurgy actually got me banned from a small forum that specializes in lager brewing.

Bravo, sir. Well played:rockin:

 

[dmtaylor]

Germans also love David Hasselhoff.

 

[bonecitybrewco]

Or use 34/70 at 65....

 

[Weezy]

I always mash around 148-150 and use a "sweeter" yeast, S-23. They end up crisp and dry, but sweet. I've not tried the hot lager method or even Cal lager yeast yet. I was never a fan of 35/70. It always churned out to much sulfur for my liking. No fun to use.

 

[dmtaylor]

After tasting my split batch of sticke alt yesterday, where I did one batch with W-34/70 and the other with WLP810 San Fran Lager yeast....... W-34/70 is a dumper, while WLP810 is quite tasty indeed, and clean as a whistle! Both were fermented in the low 60s.

I'm really becoming a fan of lager yeasts used warm.... but maybe just not W-34/70. I'm coming to find that most other lager yeasts are better than 34/70, and probably even if you can't keep them cool, although I'll confess, more experiments are needed as to the upper temperature extremes.

 

[bonecitybrewco]

After tasting my split batch of sticke alt yesterday, where I did one batch with W-34/70 and the other with WLP810 San Fran Lager yeast....... W-34/70 is a dumper, while WLP810 is quite tasty indeed, and clean as a whistle! Both were fermented in the low 60s.

I'm really becoming a fan of lager yeasts used warm.... but maybe just not W-34/70. I'm coming to find that most other lager yeasts are better than 34/70, and probably even if you can't keep them cool, although I'll confess, more experiments are needed as to the upper temperature extremes.

What made it a dumper?

 

[dmtaylor]

What made it a dumper?

Seemed to be yeast stress and/or underpitched. Acetaldehyde (green apple) and solventy. No autolysis. I don't know how the yeast could have been stressed as it was warm for a lager yeast. Took longer to start than the WLP810 too, but still started within about 24-30 hours if I recall correctly, which wasn't too bad either. I didn't rehydrate, so maybe that pissed 'em off. I may never have the definitive answer.

 

[bonecitybrewco]

Seemed to be yeast stress and/or underpitched. Acetaldehyde (green apple) and solventy. No autolysis. I don't know how the yeast could have been stressed as it was warm for a lager yeast. Took longer to start than the WLP810 too, but still started within about 24-30 hours if I recall correctly, which wasn't too bad either. I didn't rehydrate, so maybe that pissed 'em off. I may never have the definitive answer.

Funny story. My first 5 gallons of the 10 was solvent-y at first but after 3 weeks in bottle is perfectly fine. My 2nd half was only bottled a week ago and is still solvent-y. How long did you wait before dumping? So far, my amber lager is improving with age in bottles.

 

[dmtaylor]

Funny story. My first 5 gallons of the 10 was solvent-y at first but after 3 weeks in bottle is perfectly fine. My 2nd half was only bottled a week ago and is still solvent-y. How long did you wait before dumping? So far, my amber lager is improving with age in bottles.

Been lagering at about 40 F for at least 7-8 weeks.

 

[Steveruch]

Germans also love David Hasselhoff.

Makes me wish I weren't half German.
From now on I am Pennsylvania Dutch.

 

[rhys333]

I was actually going to use Mangrove Jacks Workhorse yeast. I'm aware you can use lager yeast at ale temps but I dont wont any sulphur smells stinking up my apartment. I dont mind a bit of fruityness, it doesnt have to be super clean for me. I'm more envisioning a cross between a blonde ale and a lager

Sounds like you need to get you some Kolsch yeast my friend. WY 2565 fermented cool will produce a very nice pseudo lager with just a hint of fruitiness. Ferment it at standard ale temps and you'll get a beauty of a Kolsch too.