Should I give up on it?

[1stTimer]

I have a pumpkin poter that has been bottled for 5 weeks or so now. I have yet to open one that is carbonated. I gave a few away to some friends back home in NC. I called to see how theirs was and they said the one they opened was so carbed that they lost half of it when they opened it.

Ive had mine stored at anywhere from 69 to 71 degrees. I mixed the hell out of the priming sugar as I always do. Has anyone else had this problem and if you have, did you find a way to correct it? I dont want to loose this brew. Great taste. Just needs some head.

 

[Tyrone]

What was OG/FG? (I've always wanted to type that...)

 

[1stTimer]

OG was 1.056 and FG was 1.014

 

[unionrdr]

Did you add the priming sugar as a solution? I usually make the priming solution to 2C. Let a couple inches of beer rack into the bucket,then slowly pour it into the surface of the swirling beer.
When finished racking,I try to give it a few gentle stirs to mix it further.

 

[Zamial]

This happens more than you think. It is one of the factors that pushed me to kegging. IMO mixing priming sugar into water and then gently swirling the solution and hoping they mix is a piss poor way to do it. The best way is to use carb tabs and add them straight to each bottle, that way you know exactly how much sugar is in each beer. For the ones that do not have any carb you can open them and add in the tabs as directed, recap and roll the bottles but even that is a gamble.

 

[Revvy]

Pumpkin ales have taken me between 6-8 weeks to carb up.....You don't need to keg, you just need to expect that some beers are going to take longer.

I factor 3 months for my pumpkin beers to be ready by Halloween.

And you should never just "give up on a beer."

 

[phoenixs4r]

I always add the priming sugar first, then add my fermented beer with the siphon running around the bottom of.the bucket, that way whole thing swirls the entire time I'm transferring. Never stirred, never had a problem.

 

[Revvy]

I always add the priming sugar first, then add my fermented beer with the siphon running around the bottom of.the bucket, that way whole thing swirls the entire time I'm transferring. Never stirred, never had a problem.

I agree.

I firmly believe that the not mixing issuse is a myth. The mere racking is enough to integrate the two fluids just fine.

You're talking 2 little teeny cups of liquid being overwhelmed by 5 gallons of liquid of pretty much the same density- It's impossible for it not to be mixed up

We're not talking oil and water, we're talking sugar water and alcoholic sugar water....it's not much difference.

I've bottled THOUSANDS of gallons of beer, I've never mixed, and I've NEVER not have every single bottle in a batch not be carbed eventually.

One of these days I'm going to make a perfectly clear bottling bucket, color my 2 cups priming solution with food coloring, point 3 different cameras at it from three different angles, rack my beer onto it, so folks can see the color dissipate into the beer, and finally put this nonsense to bed.....

 

[1stTimer]

I agree Revvy. I won’t give up on it. I couldn’t even if I wanted to. It’s just that there is no more carbonation than there was after 2 weeks. But I will wait another 2 weeks before I open another.

Phoenix, I did the same thing. I add the solution to the bucket then rack into the bucket. Give it some good swirling and then bottle. Guess we will see.

I’m bottling my Altbier tonight. Brewed it at least a month after the pumpkin and I think its going to be ready first. Hell, I may get my Irish Red bottled before its ready. Oh well, that brew for ya.

 

[1stTimer]

Ha, I like that idea.

 

[unionrdr]

This happens more than you think. It is one of the factors that pushed me to kegging. IMO mixing priming sugar into water and then gently swirling the solution and hoping they mix is a piss poor way to do it. The best way is to use carb tabs and add them straight to each bottle, that way you know exactly how much sugar is in each beer. For the ones that do not have any carb you can open them and add in the tabs as directed, recap and roll the bottles but even that is a gamble.

I've done both,& carb tablets or drops are def not better at all. You need too many of the tablets to get minimal carbonation. Ant the drops tend to start over-carbonating at around 7 weeks in the bottles. So priming to style with a 2C solution is far more accurate than those tablets/drops. I get better quality of bubbles with bulk priming,dextrose being the best. I think it's a matter of how fast it swirls,& when the solution is added that's creating differences. I like the idea of revvy's experiment. Maybe I'll get around to seconding that one myself. I'd love to see that.

 

[huge1s]

I usually dump it in the bottling bucket and rack on top to pretty good results. Did you happen to take a swig of the remaining beer in the bottling bucket? Reason I ask is that I recently bottled a peach hefeweizen (posted about this in another thread) and put the end of the racking hose into a nylon bag to catch any peach remnants from the fermenter. While that solution worked great for the peach remnants... I believe the nylon bag greatly reduced the flow out of the siphon hose and prevented the priming solution from mixing well. Took a little swig of the leftovers from the bottling bucket and it tasted like pure sugar. I have had one bottle blow up upon opening and a couple are just plain flat. The advice I got was to open all bottles under a towel with gloves (in case I have more exploders) then add 1/2 tsp dextrose to each bottle and re-cap. Give em a few rolls to mix the sugar and then hope.

 

[unionrdr]

So it sounds like flow rate from the racking tube is def part of it. I let 3" or so fill the bucket before pouring the priming solution into the surface. Sometimes I hadn't stirred,& it came out good. So maybe getting a few inches of beer in the bottom of the bucket 1st,with unrestricted flow is the thing to do...

 

[Reno_eNVy]

One of these days I'm going to make a perfectly clear bottling bucket, color my 2 cups priming solution with food coloring, point 3 different cameras at it from three different angles, rack my beer onto it, so folks can see the color dissipate into the beer, and finally put this nonsense to bed.....

Oh man, the "whirlpool doesn't mix it enough" threads irk me and I've been considering doing the exact same demonstration. Maybe next time I make a blonde

 

[Revvy]

Oh man, the "whirlpool doesn't mix it enough" threads irk me and I've been considering doing the exact same demonstration. Maybe next time I make a blonde

Awesome! I just got an iphone and it's got a great camera but I don't know if it will be clear enough. And I don't have any fizzy yellow beers in the pipeline to do it on.

 

[Zamial]

I think people are taking my last post a bit out of context. I personally have had issues with priming sugar not mixed well enough. I have had decent results with the Muntons carb tabs so I thought I would mention them as a way to save the uncarbed beers.

As for the priming sugar and food coloring experiment... This is going to be REALLY hard to prove to me with food coloring because all you are proving is that the food coloring/dye mixed into the solution. Think about a pitcher of Kool-aid, ever mix some up in a clear pitcher? there is normally some visible sugar on the bottom of the pitcher because it did not disolve correctly.

I personally think what happens is this. People make up the priming sugar solution, add it to the bottling bucket, then carefully rack without swirling or the like. Then they go, set up the bottles and capper and start to bottle over then next 30 minutes. It is my belief that the sugar was not fully disolved and that it falls out of suspention to the bottom of the bucket over this time.

The older brewers, like Revvy who have bottled more beer than I will probbabbly see in my lifetime, know this so they do things to prevent this from happening like: swirling the solution as they go with the racking cane, bottling as fast as possible so the sugars do not have time to settle out, ect. I do think mixing up some priming sugar into a solution and doing the fore mentioned things is way easier and produces better results than the carb tabs.

I personally got into kegging and as such have had my beer carbed exactly how I want and ready to drink faster without all the screwing around with the sugars. I was not trying to say that kegging is the only way to get great results.

 

[1stTimer]

How much priming sugar (dextrose) would you guys use for a pumpkin porter? Just curious if its similar to what I used. 5 gallon AG batch.

 

[unionrdr]

I think most folks that bulk prime are making a soulution out of the sugar in order for it to mix readilly. That's part of the whole point to me. It just made sense that 2 liquids would mix the easiest.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

If you are putting your priming sugar solution in the bucket and racking on top of it, it's definitely getting mixed well. It's the only way I have primed beers and out of about 100 gallons of beer all bottled, I've never had uncarbonated bottle. I could only see a failure to mix well if you are adding the sugar to your bottling bucket dry, adding it after the beer is in the bucket, or you are racking into the bottling bucket at the top of the liquid instead of the bottom, so there's a lack of movement of priming sugar in the bucket.

It's possible the starches or proteins in the pumpkin help the yeast clump and settle out so by the time you rack out to bottle you're getting a low volume of yeast in solution so it's taking longer to carb. Just a guess there.

 

[unionrdr]

I like to get some 3 inches or so of beer in the bottom of the bucket before slowly adding the priming solution with the racking tube set up to creat a swirl. works fine so far. But pouring the solution when the beer is near the top would be cause for concern.

 

[user 70770]

I've had carbonation issues twice so far. Once was with a 12% beer which I think I had aged for quite a while, and there wasn't enough viable yeast left to get the job done. But the beer ended up carbed even if it was very undercarbed. I also recently had a batch where the carbonation was uneven from bottle to bottle. I did the "rack on top of priming solution" technique which did me well for the most part. But I think I will go back to gently swirling the beer just a bit after racking to make sure it is well mixed. But I've never had a beer not carb at all.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

As for the priming sugar and food coloring experiment... This is going to be REALLY hard to prove to me with food coloring because all you are proving is that the food coloring/dye mixed into the solution. Think about a pitcher of Kool-aid, ever mix some up in a clear pitcher? there is normally some visible sugar on the bottom of the pitcher because it did not disolve correctly.

I personally think what happens is this. People make up the priming sugar solution, add it to the bottling bucket, then carefully rack without swirling or the like. Then they go, set up the bottles and capper and start to bottle over then next 30 minutes. It is my belief that the sugar was not fully disolved and that it falls out of suspention to the bottom of the bucket over this time.

The fact that you boil the sugar with water to make a priming solution means it's a perfectly uniform liquid before you even put any beer on it. There is absolutely no possible way for that sugar to not be completely dissolved into the water. The fact that you can even call it a "solution" lends to the fact that it is, indeed, a uniform liquid. Not only that, but once you mix in the food coloring completely it is, again, a uniform solution. Kool-Aid is an awful analogy as the sugar is not only being added to the water in its solid form, but it's being added to cold water. Sugars and salts dissolve faster in warmer water.

Now, when you put the priming solution at the bottom of the bottling bucket it is still a uniform solution. Then, when you put your hose or racking cane at the bottom of the bucket at an angled fashion it creates a whirlpool. This whirlpool mixes up the priming solution... the priming solution, as with all completely dissolved solutes in a uniform solution, will naturally evenly disperse until it is uniformy dispersed throughout the beer. As the beer level raises, the priming solution will continue to disperse uniformly (aided by the whirlpool) and by the time your completely racked into the bottling bucket the priming solution should be completely dispersed and (due to molecular forces) will not drop out of solution. If this were the case your wort would separate into higher gravity on the bottom of the column and a lower gravity on top.... which just isn't the case.

 

[Zamial]

@Reno_eNVy

I understand EXACTLY what you are talking about. I mostly agree with your post. The whirl pool/gentle stir is needed if not, I do not believe the solution mixes well every time.

IDK if I had old priming sugars (should not matter) or what but I have certainly had issues just like the OP were the solution did not mix correctly (I even had 2 bottle bombs). I think it is VERY uncommon to happen but it does happen or we would not have posts like these! The only cause I can think of is that the sugar did not disolve and mix with the beer correctly, when this happened the sugar that either was not mixed good enough or fell out over the course of the bottling session, collected at the bottom of the bucket.

Perhaps it happens when the priming sugar is put into the bucket hot and then the cool beer racked on top of it causes temp shock making some of the sugars recrystalize allowing them to sink??? IDK

Revvy (as many others here) has some great things to prevent this "non mixing" from happening as well. Like a 90 PVC elbow that "snaps" over the inside of the bucket spigot allowing almost all of the liquid to be bottled and attaching the wand directly to the bottling bucket spigot. Perhaps the OP had stuck the bottling wand onto the auto siphon and used it that way to bottle once again IDK.

The bottom line is something causes the sugar to not mix well. What that something is or is not IDK. I offered up my advice and knowledge on the subject which admitidly is limited. I chose to persue kegging because shortly after getting into this hobby I got a keggerator for a steal with a few kegs. I did not need to pursue the answers to my priming sugar woes.

If you (or anyone else for that matter) really wants to purse the cause and the science behind this, I suggest we not thread jack this thread anymore and open a new thread in the science section and run some experiments. I have grains for a lighter colored beer that I did not brew and have no idea what to do with them, as well as some access to some equipment if needed. I would be happy to participate so that we can make a "How to properly mix priming sugar" sticky...

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Fair enough, Zamial.

I'm just crossing my fingers that I get a better bottle for Christmas so I can do this experiment on the super-cheap (seeing as I only have opaque buckets.) I know I'm already getting a pin-lock corny and kettle so who knows