Should I Dump This Trub Before Pitching

[fearwig]

I use a double filtration system, false bottom and a SS ring underneath that in my boil kettle. That does a great job, leaving the majority of the trub behind.

Yeah, even the simplest filtration is really effective for trub reduction. I use a cheapo 5um singed poly filter bag from Amazon (less than $8). I let my kettle chill (more or less) in a tub of cold tap and then I pour the works through the bag (steam sterilized) into the fermenter. By the time you pour the bottom of the barrel trub through it clogs the bag up pretty well, but you can give it a (clean hands) squeeze. I used to think that would be a recipe for bugs, but you're about to pitch and it seems to help aeration anyway.

I've started using that bag in racking to my bottling bucket to reclaim wort from trub and dry hops (wort thieving bastards). Very nice (just gotta do it carefully, with the bottom of the bag dipping in the water to lessen aeration).

All that said, if I could just pour that crap into the fermenter, and just turn a little lever to drop the trub, I'd be all over that, even if I had to do it a couple of times before it was all gone. Filtration is good, it just takes a little work to keep it clean.

 

[kiblerjd]

sorry it took me so long to respond. as one person mentioned these are v-vessels and they are amazing. northern brewer sells them but i bought them a long long time ago. they hole about 7 gallons i believe but the level in the pics is 5.5 gallons.

as for dumping out the valve i do it all the time and get zero channeling. i usually leave the ball off for primary fermentation then i dump all the stuff through the valve and attach the ball during secondary. works great and i would recommend one of these to anyone. my question about dumping the trub was really geared around the fact that would be incredibly easy to do. so i was curious if it would make better beer or if it was a waste of time.

 

[Trippel-A]

I think my favorite thing about these vessels is that they're up off the floor. SWMBO would like that, too.

 

[donshizzles]

My biggest concern with these is temperature regulation. So obviously these are mounted permanently on a wall......if you don't have an area with relatively constant temps (lets say for ale fermentation), how to you have any control over temperature with these? What if you are fermenting a lager? Unless you have a walk-in fridge it seems these are not suitable for lagering.

 

[jflongo]

My biggest concern with these is temperature regulation. So obviously these are mounted permanently on a wall......if you don't have an area with relatively constant temps (lets say for ale fermentation), how to you have any control over temperature with these? What if you are fermenting a lager? Unless you have a walk-in fridge it seems these are not suitable for lagering.

Not all of us brew Lagers. I have yet to even brew a lager, even though I have about 10 all grains under my belt. Until I have a dedicated temp control fridge, I will never attempt a lager. So his setup could handle pale ales, ipa's, stouts, etc, but I'm sure Lagering is out.

 

[Cider123]

I like the fact that you can rack to your keg without the spluttering of oxygen in the beginning of the siphoning process.

Can I ask two questions? Is this the same safe plastic that is in better bottles?
How can you easily check FG's without having to dump out your yeast cake?

 

[gjsumm]

I own a V vessel and have for about 3 years I enjoy it . I made a stand for mine. I will dump mine after about a week only problem is it will get compacted on the bottom then it is a trick trying to open the valve and not make a mess while you loosen up the trub with a sanitized spoon.I have never had a problem with off taste. When I lager I use glass carboys.

 

[gjsumm]

So nobody has answered the question yet......how much wort would be lost when trying to dump the trub due to channeling? Or is the angle of these things enough that the heavier trub will slide out easily? I'll spring for 2 of these if they work well because I am thoroughly sick of the hassle of a glass carboy and a useless autosiphon.

It is not much maybe a pint at the most if you are careful.

 

[gjsumm]

My biggest concern with these is temperature regulation. So obviously these are mounted permanently on a wall......if you don't have an area with relatively constant temps (lets say for ale fermentation), how to you have any control over temperature with these? What if you are fermenting a lager? Unless you have a walk-in fridge it seems these are not suitable for lagering.

I built a stand for mine out of wood so I move mine around here is a picAlso the ball on the bottom makes it easy to harvest yeast.

 

[kjfarwell]

very nice...I would love to get a couple of these but a bigger pot first

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

God those are sexy, but im not paying $200 for one when buckets are so cheap...

Its a shame manufacturing these isnt cheaper, they must have no volume if they have to charge 200 bucks for a pressure molded piece of plastic....

I mean theres nothing special about them except their shape, its not made out of some space age plastic...

 

[kiblerjd]

wow i didn't expect this to turn into a thread about the v-vessel but i certainly don't mind chatting about them. i lose almost no beer when i dump the trub around the 7 day point. i think there are two important tricks to this. first of all i leave the valve shut and keep the ball off fir the first 7 days or so. i then dump the trub but i don't go super crazy with it. i then attach the ball and open the valve during the secondary. any trub or yeast that falls out during secondary goes right into the ball. then at the end i shut the valve, take off the ball, attach the other fitting with the hose on the end, and drain straight to the keg.

i figure the time i have saved over the last 10 years of using this thing has completely paid for the original cost of the unit. i barely remember what its like racking beer or cleaning a glass carboy. it literally takes me 5 minutes including sanitizing time to go from primary to secondary and it literally takes me 5 minutes to get the beer from secondary into a keg.

these are also very well built. the plastic is pretty thick stuff and the inside is very smooth so there is no place for bacteria to find a home. the balls and other fittings are great.

as for lagering i have never really wanted to lager so it isnt an issue for me. my fermenters are in my basement which stays at perfect ale temp almost all year long. you woukd have to get creative to lager in one of these but i'm sure it is possible.

 

[kiblerjd]

Can I ask two questions? Is this the same safe plastic that is in better bottles?
How can you easily check FG's without having to dump out your yeast cake?

i'm not sure exactly what type of plastic it is but i can tell you i have never gotten any off flavors from it, it is very durable, it doesn't scratch easily, and it cleans easily.

as for fg i have to be honest i stopped caring a long time ago. i still take an fg but i do it when transferring into the keg. i always give my beers 1 week in primary amd 2-3 weeks in secondary. if you need a sample you can very easily take the stopper off the top and steal a sample. it is basically the same as taking a sample in any fermenter through the top.

 

[baflint]

I have some of the V-Vessels for sale if anybody is interested pm me....

 

[Epimetheus]

Very nice for managing the trub and yeast. Very attractive. It's a hobby. You spend money on it. Everyone makes their own choices, economical or costly

baflint, thank you for the information. It would be more appropriate to post them in the for sale forum.

 

[kiblerjd]

One other thing I will mention about the V-vessel is that not 100% of the yeast sediment finds its way down to the ball. I have not experience with other conicals such as the stainless ones but I would imagine they are not 100% efficient either. The stainless ones with the rotating racking arms may to a better job at keeping this small amount of sediment out, but for a $600+ dollar difference in cost I think the cost outweighs the benefit. There is a very small amount of yeast on the cone when I drain, and most of it stays on the walls when I drain, but i'm sure some makes its way into the keg. Having said that I get sediment on the first pint I pour and that's it, so I think that is also consistent with what all homebrewers see.

The only reason I posted this was so people could see I wasn't secretly a v-vessel dealer or something. The v-vessel is not perfect, but I think the amount of time it saves me makes it completely worth the cost and I will never go back to buckets and carboys.

 

[jubelale]

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=45020&catid=513

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=45020&catid=513

The benefit i see with these is that they are only 7-8 gallons.

I only do 5 gallon batches and have ZERO interest in moving to 10 gallon batches as i like variety and making new styles...15 gallon is just too big. I wish they would make a smaller 8-10 gallon version.

 

[fearwig]

The benefit i see with these is that they are only 7-8 gallons.

I only do 5 gallon batches and have ZERO interest in moving to 10 gallon batches as i like variety and making new styles...15 gallon is just too big. I wish they would make a smaller 8-10 gallon version.

Yeah, I will do ten gallon mashes to make two beers, but 15gal is excessive by most standards. The price is ok, but I haven't looked at shipping. Got to be steep. I'd still rather have half a dozen little conicals than two of those.

I'm going to try to make one out of a 12" funnel and hdpe bucket with either o-rings or glue and silicone, similar to what I've seen elsewhere. I'll start a thread for it, good or bad. If it works, I think I'll make a little army of them...

 

[gjsumm]

One other thing I will mention about the V-vessel is that not 100% of the yeast sediment finds its way down to the ball. I have not experience with other conicals such as the stainless ones but I would imagine they are not 100% efficient either. The stainless ones with the rotating racking arms may to a better job at keeping this small amount of sediment out, but for a $600+ dollar difference in cost I think the cost outweighs the benefit. There is a very small amount of yeast on the cone when I drain, and most of it stays on the walls when I drain, but i'm sure some makes its way into the keg. Having said that I get sediment on the first pint I pour and that's it, so I think that is also consistent with what all homebrewers see.

The only reason I posted this was so people could see I wasn't secretly a v-vessel dealer or something. The v-vessel is not perfect, but I think the amount of time it saves me makes it completely worth the cost and I will never go back to buckets and carboys.

They were actually made for wine making , it has just migrated to beer.

 

[Arrheinous]

I'm going to try to make one out of a 12" funnel and hdpe bucket with either o-rings or glue and silicone, similar to what I've seen elsewhere. I'll start a thread for it, good or bad. If it works, I think I'll make a little army of them...

Just make super sure it doesn't pop open under the weight. HDPE is tough to glue and it's pretty slippery.

Not to keep this limited to plastic: In Radical Brewing, Randy Mosher's 7 gallon conical looks like a steel milk container (sloped) welded upside down to the open bottom of a corny keg.

 

[fearwig]

Yeah. The 12" funnels I've seen at MDHB have about a 2" lip that I think will go right over my 5gal (11 7/8" dia). That lip gives me a lot of wiggle room for gaskets (removed from bucket lids?) and silicone before sealing with epoxy for strength. Any lifting would probably have to be from the base, though. Cost before sealants/gaskets would be just over $16 ($10 funnel, $4 food safe 5gal, $2 homer bucket base).

All this hinges on the funnel being PET or HDPE, though. My wife won't let me brew on phthalates and bpa, even if I were so inclined! (I dream of cheap, flexible tubing...)

 

[jcoxen]

Isn't there a company that makes a gizmo that goes on top of a 5 gallon bucket? You clamp it on, invert the whole apparatus and your bucket becomes a conical. I've seen them advertised somewhere.

Anybody know what I'm talking about? Has anybody tried them? If so, how well do they work?

Did a little digging and found it - http://www.onederbrew.com/. I have no idea how well they work. At $169.00 they're (a bit) less expensive than V Vessels but more expensive than the 15 Gallon conicals that have been mentioned.

The only other alternative I can find the MiniBrew - http://minibrew.com/product-category/conical-fermenter/ - but they're more expensive than the V-Vessels.

 

[donshizzles]

Did a little digging and found it - http://www.onederbrew.com/. I have no idea how well they work. At $169.00 they're (a bit) less expensive than V Vessels but more expensive than the 15 Gallon conicals that have been mentioned.

The only other alternative I can find the MiniBrew - http://minibrew.com/product-category/conical-fermenter/ - but they're more expensive than the V-Vessels.

I just got my MiniBrew yesterday and can't wait to give it a go. My only concern is the yellow "lid" isn't a screw on lid, its a flimsy piece of flexible plastic that fits over the opening. I'm wondering if a vigorous fermentation would blow it off or allow nasties to get in through small openings. Otherwise the unit seems pretty well made.

 

[gjsumm]

I have had the top blow off on my V vessel , I thought it was cool ,except for the loss beer, wife did not have my same enthusiasm.

 

[FortMillBrew]

Sorry I know this is an older post.
Greetings V-Vessel users on this thread. I just acquired one and I have a question. If you had to estimate, what volume of trub/yeast would you say is average for a mid gravity 5g batch? I ask because the 'ball' that comes with the vessel holds 600ml and I hear people saying they dump it several times. I am going to build a 'catcher' that holds the average volume. I am thinking maybe a quart, two at the most. I do not harvest my yeast from my fermentors because I harvest from my starters. Thoughts?

 

[kiblerjd]

I empty the first ball and use it as harvested yeast. The second ball is never more than half full when the brew is done. Why would you go through the trouble to make something though. It literally takes 60 seconds to empty it an put it back on. That's the whole point.

 

[FortMillBrew]

I empty the first ball and use it as harvested yeast. The second ball is never more than half full when the brew is done. Why would you go through the trouble to make something though. It literally takes 60 seconds to empty it an put it back on. That's the whole point.

I was going off your pictures at the start of this thread (I now assume your ball valve was closed?) and the word of others who stated they have to 'dump' multiple times. Making the 'catcher' is zero trouble, but I am also not into doing things for nothing. Guess I'll put my APA in there tomorrow and judge for myself. I ferment in buckets and glass carboys currently. I am hoping to 'love' this v-vessel...

 

[kiblerjd]

Yes it was closed. I have owned these for over ten years and I have never once filled the ball twice. I empty it once after primary fermentation and I call that the start of my secondary. Next time I take it off is when I keg. I'm telling you I wouldn't waste your time but experiment and see what works for you. You will really like these things.

 

[SpentBrains]

Trub contains phenols and sulpher by products. Sometime ago, someone said that trub helps yeast. The person is right, but in the wrong way. Yeast will feed on trub when wort lacks extract, nutrients and minerals. With Lager during the end of the phase, yeast will work on the trub, instead of on the low extract levels in the beer. The yeast cover absorbs flavors from the trub and imparts the flavors into the beer. From boiler to belly in 4 weeks or in high octane high hopped beer, the flavors are masked. Dump the trub, aerate and toss in the yeast. Leaving fermented wort on trub with yeast cake for an extended period is pointless. Back in the early 80s a company built a device that clamped onto the neck of a carboy. The device had a valve for dumping trub, a racking valve and a tube for a blowoff. The company had a carrier that the carboy would fit in and allow it to be turned neck end down. When Charlie Poopazian wrote RDWHAHB the company went out of business.

This post perfectly illustrates why it is always good to have an old guy or two around.

Thanks as I've been looking for this info for a while now. Your historical context of fermenting on trub is priceless.