Should I bottle my saison brett now?

[Brett3rThanU]

I've had my saison aging with brett b now for 1 year. I took a sample yesterday and the gravity was .997 (temp corrected) and it tasted rather bland, clean and dry, not a lot of funk to it. Being the gravity is where it's at, do you think I'd still get some more funk if I let it age longer? Being a year out, I guess I expected it to be funkier than this, I'm kind of shocked.

 

[sweetcell]

after 1 year, and at .997, it's done. i don't think it's going to change much more. bottle it up, being under pressure in the bottle might bring a little more funk (brett acts a little differently when under pressure).

carbonation can also change the taste, perhaps that will help?

 

[Brett3rThanU]

That's what I was afraid of. It's not bad by any means, just not what I was hoping for, oh well. Do I need add some champaign yeast when bottlingn or will the existing brett take care of carb'ing it?

 

[marvaden]

This is anecdotal, but I have found brett to take longer, so adding champagne yeast would probably speed things up.

 

[DarthCitra]

I just cracked open my "Brett B Hoppenin" IPA after two weeks and is carbed perfectly. One year fermentation for your's is crazy, ive only heard of that long for lacto fermentation with secondary brett. I fermented with Brett B for 3 weeks and once my FG was hit i bottled. At bottling i tried a couple sips and wasnt really what i was shooting far, the aroma was missing the funk and the taste was light. Now i tried it yesterday and i was shocked how much it improved, im not sure how long i should let it sit in bottles (ive heard of brett over carbing with possible bombs) but it may not last with how amazing it turned out

 

[Brett3rThanU]

Anyone care to take a stab as to why the low funkiness after 1 year? My recipe and procedure was as follows:

• 8 lb pilsner
• 1 lb caravienna
• 1 lb munic
• .75 oz Amarillo @ 60
• .5 oz Amarillo @ 15
• .5 oz Amarillo @ 5 min

3711 for primary, then pitched a vial of brett b on top in the secondary, gravity was 1.006 when I pitched the brett b.

 

[tripplehazzard]

If you pitch an all brett beer odds are you will get a clean character from it.i see you did it in secondary so I don't know. I hear its not uncommon for brett to come out super clean if not under a lot of stress. Cheers I hope this helps. Listen to the most recent podcast of the brewing network with the rare barrel. I bet this will give you some good insight

 

[Brett3rThanU]

Would it be worth bottling with another strain of brett to add complexity?

 

[sweetcell]

Would it be worth bottling with another strain of brett to add complexity?

probably won't make any difference at this point. your original brett strain has already eaten up and transformed most, if not everything, there is to eat and transform (namely, all the sacch by-products). you'll be pitching the second yeast into a desert. adding sugar, malto-dextrine, etc won't help. brett will ferment those cleanly. the funk comes from brett transforming sacch's by-products into new compounds.

 

[smokinghole]

You aged it too long unpackaged and used 3711 for primary. Next time use the DuPont or Blaugies strain and bottle MUCH earlier. You can safely bottle in champagne weight bottles. I bottle my saisons with Brett as soon as I get around to it. I check the gravity prime based off an experienced assumption of how much more extract the Brett will ferment in the bottle and then I free up the fermentor for a new batch. Gravity doesn't have to be 1.000 or less to be safe I bottled some as high as 1.009 and primed for near 3.0volumes and the Brett went another 4.5 points further in the bottle. It was a sort of homage to Orval and it is pretty awesome.

 

[MileHighBrewer]

3711 is likely why. That yeast tears through everything, thoroughly and quickly. If you try again use a strain with lower attenuation. People do well using a dupont strain and pitching brett when it hits that famous 1.030 wall

 

[Brett3rThanU]

Yeah, I learned my lesson with the 3711. I had no idea 8 points wouldn't be enough to get some funk out of the brett b. I recently did a sour and used 3724 instead and pitched a bunch of bottle dregs alongside in the primary. 2 months in and it's already sour.

 

[sweetcell]

3711 is likely why. That yeast tears through everything, thoroughly and quickly. If you try again use a strain with lower attenuation. People do well using a dupont strain and pitching brett when it hits that famous 1.030 wall

according to Chad Yacobson, brett doesn't need sugars to make funk. in fact, less sugar can lead to more funk. 3711 might well be to blame, but not because it chewed through all the sugars but because it's a fairly tame saison yeast and doesn't kick up as many esters as other saison yeasts. no/fewer brett flavor building blocks = no/less brett flavor.

I recently did a sour and used 3724 instead and pitched a bunch of bottle dregs alongside in the primary. 2 months in and it's already sour.

souring bugs (lactic acid bacteria) are a different story. they need food or they won't do squat.

 

[Brett3rThanU]

according to Chad Yacobson, brett doesn't need sugars to make funk. in fact, less sugar can lead to more funk. 3711 might well be to blame, but not because it chewed through all the sugars but because it's a fairly tame saison yeast and doesn't kick up as many esters as other saison yeasts. no/fewer brett flavor building blocks = no/less brett flavor.

I keep hearing opposing view on this. Some say brett needs those long chain sugars to create the funk, some say it feeds off the biproducts of the primary yeast itself. I'm more confused than ever on this.

 

[smokinghole]

Brett will need some sugar and starch but not a serious measurable amount. Brett create an enzyme that break flavor and aroma bonds giving it a carbon source. It work on both fermentation products and hop components. Thats why the above statement of "Brett doesn't need sugar" is mostly true, but not 100% true. Its like you living on celery compared to fatty burger meat. Sure you can get by for a while, but you need the protein and fat for muscle and cognitive maintenance. I believe its the lack of easily accessible sugars that forces the brett into funk development. So combine that with the utilization of aroma and flavor compounds and you have a recipe for funk. Pressure also plays a role. My best guess that pressure creates a lower intracellular pH that changes metabolic products due to the retention of co2 thus carbonic acid. The same as if we don't exhale properly for a while our, blood pH drops.....

 

[sweetcell]

Brett will need some sugar and starch but not a serious measurable amount.

per the OP, his gravity was 1.006 when he pitched the brett. so more than enough sugar available.

Thats why the above statement of "Brett doesn't need sugar" is mostly true, but not 100% true.

you're absolutely right, however from a practical point of view we can consider it "true enough". very, very few beers will be so dry as to not have enough sugar for brett. even a 1.000 will have some sugar in it (because alcohol is lighter than water etc.).

 

[smokinghole]

Do you want me to say you are right and leave your post as the last word or something? I mean we wouldn't want someone to post up real experience mixed with academic research to challenge another "according to someone else" post. I'm opposed to blanket statements. I am glad you are informing me of the aspect that there is still sugar in a wort even if at 1.000. The question remains whether its sugar that can be utilized. There's also sugar in bourbon after aging......doesn't mean an organism could utilize it even if the.ethanol was brought to non-toxic levels for yeast.

 

[MileHighBrewer]

Well if we are bringing up Chad, we have to bring up something we missed in the diagnosis here....which I'm surprised we didn't ask...usually one of the first things all of us go to first...how was the beer made? What mash temp? Rests or single infusion? How was primary fermentation done? The brett alone, or remaining sugars, aren't the only aspect to look at

 

[marvaden]

Also, an area I have heard little discussion on is how much temperature plays on funk production. I normally let mine sit at room temperature (70-75°f), and get substantial funk. Was this in a cooler environment?

 

[Brett3rThanU]

If I remember correctly I mashed at 152F, single infustion. Low I know, mostly because it was a split batch and did a regular saision with the other half. Primary fermentation was aroun 70F, aging for the past year about 73 - 75F.

 

[MileHighBrewer]

I'd say just bottle it and give it time....OR....could toss it on some fruit for a few months as well.

 

[Brett3rThanU]

I bottled it last week, we'll see how it turns out.

 

[DarthCitra]

I bottled it last week, we'll see how it turns out.

Accepting samples now

 

[Brett3rThanU]

Well I sampled a bottle after only 2 weeks carbing and it's still low carbonation, but unfortunately has a band aid after taste to it. I think it's safe to say it was a year wasted. On the bright side I know what I did wrong, but not entirely sure why I'm getting that band aid taste.

 

[DarthCitra]

Well I sampled a bottle after only 2 weeks carbing and it's still low carbonation, but unfortunately has a band aid after taste to it. I think it's safe to say it was a year wasted. On the bright side I know what I did wrong, but not entirely sure why I'm getting that band aid taste.

I'll take a bottle and examine it, sadly i cant help without tasting :cross:

 

[DarthCitra]

2 weeks is for minimum carbonation too, give it time to age. Might be a little green.

Never say you wasted the time on any beer good or bad. Its a learning experience to better your brews

 

[LakesideBrewing]

Any update on this, Brett3rThanU?

 

[Brett3rThanU]

I haven't sampled a bottle in a few months, but the last one I did try still wasn't very good. Very bland with a slight band aid taste. The bottles aren't taking up much space in my closet so I'm still going to let them sit longer. Once I hit the 3 year mark I'll cut my losses and dump them if they're still no good. Since then I've gotten a nice pipe line of sours going that are coming along nicely. I'll probably give the Saison Brett another go soon knowing what I know now. I'll be sure to post here if the current batch miraculously takes a turn for the better!

 

[DarthCitra]

I try to sample my beers that need aging every 2-3 months to see how they are progressing. You sampled one a few months ago so might as well try another and see if they are getting better or worse.