Shipping yeast - your thoughts?

[Brewham]

I am frustrated with the difficulty of shipping live yeast. Even the stuff at my LHBS is dead half the time and at $7 a vial, I'm wasting money and time gambling if the little buggers are dead or alive. Using starters helps but if the answer is "no," you're back to square one - get more yeast and brew another day.

I got a kit from a reputable online store that took 5 days to arrive. Just for grins I froze their puny little ice pack and wrapped it in a t-shirt (far more insulation than their method) and stuck the thing in the trunk of my car to duplicate shipping conditions. In just 5 hours the ice pack was almost completely melted. Now how in the world does anyone expect that to keep the yeast cold for 5 days? This is a bad joke.

Short of paying outrageous "overnight" rates, what is the answer? I would suggest shippers come up with a better insulated bag and ice combination and test it to be sure it works. Charge me $5 (or something reasonable) for it but give me a credit on my account when I mail it back to be used again. That encourages me to order again and gets me live yeast.

Short of that, I am about done with live yeast until winter time. Anyone else have a better idea?

 

[Wolfy]

Anyone else have a better idea?

Have someone make you yeast slants.
Freshly inoculated yeast needs a few days (at warm/room temp) to grow on the wort/agar jelly, so if they are shipped as soon as they are made the shipping time is also the incubation time and when the yeast arrives its freshly grown and ready to use.

 

[BigBadMikey]

Brewham, I have experienced dead yeast upon arrival too. I have recently switched to dry yeast for IPA's and the like. I have not had any problem with the yeast that was shipped dry. Like you, I was dismayed at the ice pack shipper when buying liquid yeast packs from my favorite online store. It was simply a padded manila envelope that had recycled newsprint for insulation. If I need to use Liquid, I will make the trip to my LHBS to buy it. They get weekly shipments and I have never had a problem with dead yeast from them. Wyeast ships to them in very well insulated foam shippers. I have also started to wash and store yeast for future brews. Perhaps the big homebrew suppliers can use rigid foam insulated packs in order to minimize yeast casualties.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

I get my yeast from the UK via regular post and it always arrives in good shape (white labs and wyeast). But I only order in colder months. I then rinse and reuse my yeast as per the thread on here about washing yeast. I'm still using yeast from my last order in March and no troubles. I won't order again until likely around early November.

 

[bja]

A couple years ago I ordered 8 different strains of yeast when the weather was cool. I made slants from each strain and haven't bought yeast since then.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Have you priced out having the kit mailed sperate from the yeast? And having the yeast overnited?

 

[Special Hops]

Just use dry yeast. Easier, cheaper and don't have to worry about heat with shipping and starters.

Unless you are making a hefeweizen or some belgians beers where no dry yeast is available - dry yeast is just as effective and a hell of a lot easier and cheaper.

 

[spareparts]

A method I tried out on another board works pretty well and it's also what our yeast labs do. Granted you're not going to get a HBS to ship this way.

You cut a half inch square from a piece of absorbant paper. The kind we use resembles construction paper. Fold it up in foil and autoclave it (or pressure cooker). Carefully open the foil without contaminating it. Using sterile wire loop take a sample of yeast from a plate or slant and put it on the paper. Fold the foil back up and wrap in plastic or put it in a small plastic bag. Mail in a regular envelope with a $.44 stamp. The receiver revives by placing the square of paper on a prepared plate. It can stick to the foil a little bit so a sterile loop or toothpick may come in handy to remove it. I mailed out 6 samples to people in different parts of the country and all were able to successfully revive the strain.

 

[Brewham]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Fed Ex overnight for 1 vial of yeast is $34. That's not much of an option. Making slants and culturing yeast is a science in itself and I'm not sure I have the time or the space to devote. Dry yeast is great but doesn't have the variety or character of live yeast for certain beers. I do love my Belgians so I may have to take the plunge in cultivation..

What I am asking is for the stores to come up with a better solution or I will just not order liquid yeast except in the dead of winter. Omaha Steaks ships meat with dry ice and a styrofoam container. It is still frozen when it arrives. Why can't HBSs come up with a way to keep a little vial of yeast cool for a few days?

 

[mithion]

I can understand your pain. I think I'll go with poster #4 suggestion. What you can do is bite the bullet once and have yourself a fresh vial of yeast overnight from a reliable HBS. Then learn about yeast washing and try reusing your yeast. If you're really meticulous, you can make dozens of batches of beer from one vial. In that scenario, your $34 of shipping will be mittigated.

 

[samc]

Why not call or email White Labs or Wyeast with your concerns. Seems like they would want to solve the problem for you and the one who does the best job of it can claim to serve the home brew community with the most viable product across the country!

 

[marc06]

Culture yeast from bottles during the summer. I have found its a win/win situation. You get beer and yeast!!!!! If you don't succeed, you just had a 6 pack and now you HAVE to go back and buy a different 6 pack.

 

[bsdx]

I have a story I intend to post soon, but the short version is if you order yeast with plenty of ice packs from white labs or someone else that ships from white labs, 2 day shipping without spanning a weekend caused the yeast to arrive in Michigan from CA during the summer with the yeast still cool. I got 11 vials with around 11 ice packs, white labs box is insulated with about half an inch of styro as well. If the shipping works out, the vials are less than a week old so you have that on your side, and make a starter anyway! I'm not advocating paying through the nose for damaged yeast; I think if it is shipped properly and didn't get too hot somewhere, it can be good.

 

[prosper]

my LHBS overnights shipments in styrofoam coolers with ice packs. It means that they cost a bit more ($10), but they're fresh.

Otherwise, you'll just need to make starters (something you really ought to be doing anyway)

 

[Brewham]

Update - The yeast was 5 days in transit, through the heat of summer, with a puny little ice pack that had long since melted. I refrigerated it as soon as it finally arrived and the yeast sat in the frig about 10 days. I was sure it was dead.

I made a starter and put it on the stir plate last night. This afternoon it is definitely alive and well, the starter is milky and smells like fermenting beer. It survived.

Tomorrow the Belgian Golden Ale Yeast WLP 570 (exp date Nov 2010) will be rewarded by getting to feast on a fine Duvel.

All is well - but I still think the shippers should come up with a better cooling pack.

 

[schweaty]

I ordered some yeast from Rebel Brewer online about 10 days ago. It arrived in two days and even though the ice packs (which I paid extra for) were melted, the yeast is still in great shape. I made a starter two days ago and it is alive and kickin'! Personally I prefer liquid to dry, but everyone has their own preference. That's what makes this hobby so great!

 

[Revvy]

I honestly wonder what criteria some of you use to declare your yeast DOA? Since many brewers go by things like airlocks not bubbling as opposed to using a hydro and declare their brew ruined. Or smack a smack pack and if it doesn't inflate (which even on the wyyeast website says is not a necessity. I ask, how many of you are making a starter with your liquid yeast? And how many of you who make starters are, like many of the "my starter isn't working" thread creator folks are looking for the wrong signs on their starters, and when we point out the correct signs to them they realize their starters are indeed fine. And how many of you, whether you make a starter or not are waiting the 72 hours that we mention, and confirming the beer's not fermenting with a hydrometer.

In other words how many of you are treating the yeast properly on your end?

So many new brewers start threads here complaining there's somethign wrong and going by or not doing the above things, declaring their yeast dead, then when we tell them to take a hydrometer, they come back and say "ooops you were right, everyhting is fine."

If you haven't made a starter, haven't waited 72 hours after yeast pitch, and haven't confirmed the yeast isn't working with a hydrometer reading then you haven't proven to me, or yourselves more importantly that your yeast is truly dead or truly damaged on arrival.

Like Brewham has proven, by the simple act of making a starter that the yeast HE had shipped in the mail, in the heat of summer, was perfectly fine.

I'm not doubting that everyone's yeast isn't dead...only some. But if you are not using good breweing processes to begin with, then you can't really know what your yeast is doing, wheter it's viable or not.

Good brewing practice, especially where liquid yeast is involved requires making a starter for ALL liquid yeast, and for every beer above 1.020 OG. But regardless of OG, making a starter proves your yeast is viable or not it also reproduces ANY living cells in the yeast, just like how we harvest yeast from a bottle of beer, where only a few cells may be viable. Incrememntally feeding a starter, makes enough yeast to do the job.

Just for the mere fact that your yeast may not be in the best shape when it gets to you, should be reason enough to make a starter.

Starters may or may not krausen, and often like in a fermenter of beer, an airlcok may not bubble whatsoever. But you will see flocculated yeast in the bottom of your vessel.

Yeast often takes 72 hours after yeast pitch to form a krausen, or to make a noticeable drop in gravity...So that's why there is a sticky at the top of the beginners forum stating that. Many many times a new brewer will open their bucket on the third day, and find a krausen, or they take a hydro reading and it has dropped, and everythign is fine (99% of those "Stuck/stopped fermentation threads on here, end that why, with the Op seeing everything is fine.)

An airlock is a valve to release excess co2 not a fermentation gauge, it may or may not bubble at all, or it may stop bubbling long before the yeast is done doing it's job. To truly know what is going on, YOU MUST use a hydometer, that is the only accurate way to know what your yeast is doing.

If you HAVE made a starter, if you DID wait 72 hours after pitching, and you DID take a hydro reading, and your yeast didn't take off (though if you made a starter you prolly already new) then I am sorry for your loss, but I maintain that you are in the minority.

But if you didn't make a starter to beging with, or you went by airlcok bubbling, or you didn't wait 72 hours, or of equal importance to making a starter didn't use your hydrometer, then you are not handling the yeast properly.

Becasue you didn't give the yeast a good head start to begin with, to have the best chance of survival off the bat. With a starter even one or 2 surviving cells in your hot packet could be made into enough yeast to do the job.

And also you don't really know whether or not your yeast was dead to begin with...

And if you're not doing those basic things mentioned above, then you are really wasting your money to begin with....

I'll say it again, if yeast can sit for 45 million years encased in amber http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/17-08/ff_primordial_yeast then more times than not it WILL survive the journey to your home from the store.

Just make sure YOU do the best for it when it gets there!