Shiny New Mill... To Motorize or Not to Motorize...

[Catt22]

Yes, I'm looking at a 1725 rpm motor. I think I'm gonna go with a worm gear box (10:1) over sheaves... for compactness and safety concerns. Might just go with the 1/2 hp model.

Excellelnt choice on the worm drive and 173 rpm would be just about ideal IMO. Where did you find the worm drive? It will inherently give you the right angle offset too which is an added bonus for a more compact configuration.

 

[vonZwicky]

The motor is here: http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...rs_-a-_Accessories_(0.33_-_2HP)/MTR-P50-1AB18

and the gearbox here: http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...s_(Speed_Reducers)_by_ratio/10:1/WG-175-010-R

 

[Homercidal]

My homemade mill is powered by a free gearmotor given to me by a guy at work. I dont have the specs, but it's small enough to fit on a sheet of stainless right next to the mill. It's a right angle gearmotor, so the space is smaller. The whole assembly, including the switch and hopper can hang on a nail in the garage, and just sits on top of a bucket when I want to use it.

Other than the mill doesn't always grab grain, it works fine. Probably slower than most, but I can fill the hopper and come back in a few minutes and refill. That hopper holds 6 lbs of grain. I should have our Wire EDM guy on second shift cut me a pair of gears to get the idle roller always moving.

 

[Catt22]

The motor is here: http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...rs_-a-_Accessories_(0.33_-_2HP)/MTR-P50-1AB18

and the gearbox here: http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...s_(Speed_Reducers)_by_ratio/10:1/WG-175-010-R

The motor and worm drive appear to be first class equipment. The prices would stop me dead in my tracks though. Just doing a rough tally, it's starting to look like the total cost for the mill, motor, gearbox, couplers, hopper, shipping etc could exceed $600. Ouch!

 

[Catt22]

My homemade mill is powered by a free gearmotor given to me by a guy at work. I dont have the specs, but it's small enough to fit on a sheet of stainless right next to the mill. It's a right angle gearmotor, so the space is smaller. The whole assembly, including the switch and hopper can hang on a nail in the garage, and just sits on top of a bucket when I want to use it.

Other than the mill doesn't always grab grain, it works fine. Probably slower than most, but I can fill the hopper and come back in a few minutes and refill. That hopper holds 6 lbs of grain. I should have our Wire EDM guy on second shift cut me a pair of gears to get the idle roller always moving.

IMO, milling relatively slowly is desirable for several reasons. Less wear and tear on the mill, generates much less grain dust and it's quieter. I'm running quite slow myself at only 115 rpm and about 2+ lbs/min throughput. The slow rate is not even an inconvenience as I can fill the hopper and do something else while the mill is running. I just milled a 50 lb grain bill a few days ago in about 20 minutes. I didn't actually time it, but it did not take very long. I was headed to a group brew that morning. The hopper holds about 20 lbs, so I only had to fill it twice and top it up with the remainder near the end. It was finished milling before I had the snow swept off my truck. The usual problem is getting the mill to run slower, not faster.

 

[Homercidal]

When I first started using it, and the grain would get caught better, a hopper load would take about 2 minutes I think. 6 lbs in 2 minutes is fine by me.

 

[vonZwicky]

The motor and worm drive appear to be first class equipment. The prices would stop me dead in my tracks though. Just doing a rough tally, it's starting to look like the total cost for the mill, motor, gearbox, couplers, hopper, shipping etc could exceed $600. Ouch!

That doesn't even include the price of the wood, sandpaper, wood finish, fasteners, couplers, switches, wheels (possibly), and my time in labor that will be put into this. It helps that the mill was a gift from SWMBO. Also, I think they may like me at work- my bonus this year was just north of decent. My brewery build has been moving at a glacial pace, just because I'm not in a rush (I'd rather be patient to achieve higher quality), and the high price of my builds are not so bad, when spread out over long periods of time. In the end, I'll get great satisfaction knowing I built something first class, that might last generations without too much maintenance, and that I could possibly sell for at least a fractional recoup if I ever get in a real pinch.

I'll take this opportunity to shamelessly drop some links to some of my other build threads:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/vonzwickys-keezer-build-158421/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/wooden-grolsch-bottle-cases-ten-years-making-170733/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/custom-shelves-brewery-bling-209396/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/year-zero-day-one-today-210761/

 

[vonZwicky]

IMO, milling relatively slowly is desirable for several reasons. Less wear and tear on the mill, generates much less grain dust and it's quieter. I'm running quite slow myself at only 115 rpm and about 2+ lbs/min throughput. The slow rate is not even an inconvenience as I can fill the hopper and do something else while the mill is running. I just milled a 50 lb grain bill a few days ago in about 20 minutes. I didn't actually time it, but it did not take very long. I was headed to a group brew that morning. The hopper holds about 20 lbs, so I only had to fill it twice and top it up with the remainder near the end. It was finished milling before I had the snow swept off my truck. The usual problem is getting the mill to run slower, not faster.

Catt22, I've been wondering about this... I've heard that somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 rpm is ideal. My current design would put me at 172. Do you think there is an advantage to going even slower than this? Personally, I'm not interested in speed when it comes to milling, just reliability. Would less than 172 result in a better crush with less dust?

 

[vonZwicky]

My homemade mill is powered by a free gearmotor given to me by a guy at work. I dont have the specs, but it's small enough to fit on a sheet of stainless right next to the mill. It's a right angle gearmotor, so the space is smaller. The whole assembly, including the switch and hopper can hang on a nail in the garage, and just sits on top of a bucket when I want to use it.

Other than the mill doesn't always grab grain, it works fine. Probably slower than most, but I can fill the hopper and come back in a few minutes and refill. That hopper holds 6 lbs of grain. I should have our Wire EDM guy on second shift cut me a pair of gears to get the idle roller always moving.

Homercidal, I'd really like to see some pics!

 

[Catt22]

Catt22, I've been wondering about this... I've heard that somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 rpm is ideal. My current design would put me at 172. Do you think there is an advantage to going even slower than this? Personally, I'm not interested in speed when it comes to milling, just reliability. Would less than 172 result in a better crush with less dust?

I agree that 200 is probably about ideal. The 172 would also be near perfect IMO. I see no advantage in going slower than that. The dust will be minimal even at 200 and especially so if you condition the malt prior to milling, which is what I always do. There will be a difference in the crush with different mill speeds, but that can easily be compensated for through gap adjustment. It would require a substantial jump in the rpms to make a noticeable difference in the crush, but you could tell if you ran a mill at say 100 vs 600 with the same gap. The higher speed will produce a finer crush. I'm not exactly sure why this happens, but I got that information directly from a guy who once designed malt mills and he did some actual sieve analysis testing on the grist produced at various speeds specifically to see what effect the speed changes would have.

 

[Homercidal]

Homercidal, I'd really like to see some pics!

I had recorded a video of it working, but now it's lost. Next time I get out to the garage to use it I'll take pics and maybe some video on my phone or something.

 

[BeerDino]

Here is What I did with my Monster Mill.
I have just finished and have not run my first batch yet.
http://my.imageshack.us/v_images.php

 

[vonZwicky]

Here is What I did with my Monster Mill.
I have just finished and have not run my first batch yet.
http://my.imageshack.us/v_images.php

BeerDino, when I click on this link, imageshack tells my I must log in to view the images, and when I do log in, all I see is my pics, and none of yours.

 

[vonZwicky]

I agree that 200 is probably about ideal. The 172 would also be near perfect IMO. I see no advantage in going slower than that. The dust will be minimal even at 200 and especially so if you condition the malt prior to milling, which is what I always do. There will be a difference in the crush with different mill speeds, but that can easily be compensated for through gap adjustment. It would require a substantial jump in the rpms to make a noticeable difference in the crush, but you could tell if you ran a mill at say 100 vs 600 with the same gap. The higher speed will produce a finer crush. I'm not exactly sure why this happens, but I got that information directly from a guy who once designed malt mills and he did some actual sieve analysis testing on the grist produced at various speeds specifically to see what effect the speed changes would have.

This seems logical if you think of the contact of the malt with the rollers as a collision. Just as in a car accident, the greater the speed of the cars, the greater the damage to the vehicles. So the faster the rollers go, the energy of the collision is greater, resulting in more "damage" to the barley.

 

[vonZwicky]

Ok, I pulled the trigger, and ordered the motor and gearbox this morning. I still need to get the lovejoy couplers, a switch, cord, etc. Looks like I'll be doing a little McMasterCarr shopping this weekend. Once I have the motor and gearbox in hand, I'll be able to get down to the brass tacks of design. I may try to do a very crude base hopper set up at first to test everything out. Also, I kicked my keg of homebrew last night, so I need to mill some more grain pronto!

 

[BrewBeemer]

IMO, milling relatively slowly is desirable for several reasons. Less wear and tear on the mill, generates much less grain dust and it's quieter. I'm running quite slow myself at only 115 rpm and about 2+ lbs/min throughput. The slow rate is not even an inconvenience as I can fill the hopper and do something else while the mill is running. I just milled a 50 lb grain bill a few days ago in about 20 minutes. I didn't actually time it, but it did not take very long. I was headed to a group brew that morning. The hopper holds about 20 lbs, so I only had to fill it twice and top it up with the remainder near the end. It was finished milling before I had the snow swept off my truck. The usual problem is getting the mill to run slower, not faster.

Catt, what mill and gearmotor you using for 115 rpm output?

 

[BeerDino]

Here is a new link to my pic's
http://s1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff508/BeerDino/

 

[vonZwicky]

Here is a new link to my pic's
http://s1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff508/BeerDino/

Nice job on this! Very clean looking. I like the mill on the roll-around-cart cart concept. I'm playing around with the idea of incorporating wheels into my design.

 

[BeerDino]

I had the Rubbermaid cart sitting around and it was just the right size for the mill.
Harbor freight has a vary nice knockoff for about half the price.

 

[vonZwicky]

The Rubbermaid carts are not cheap. We bought one for work, and I can't remember the exact price, but it made my head hurt thinking about it.

By the way- Welcome aboard, BeerDino. Even though you only have 3 posts, you must have been brewing awhile to have that nice of a mill setup.

 

[BeerDino]

Thanks for the welcome. I have been an extract brewer for the last 2 years and am 1 more batch from the start of my all grain adventures.
Like most of us I have been slowly compiling the nessasary parts to make the transition, and as we all know you can never have enough toys.

 

[vonZwicky]

Thanks for the welcome. I have been an extract brewer for the last 2 years and am 1 more batch from the start of my all grain adventures.
Like most of us I have been slowly compiling the nessasary parts to make the transition, and as we all know you can never have enough toys.

Good luck! I skipped over the extract phase entirely and went straight to building an all grain system. Don't get me wrong- I know there are lots of good brewers who've been brewing great extract beers for years. I've just been lured in by all the fancy toys that go with all grain. I brewed my first batch a little over a month ago and thought it turned out pretty damn good. About to spend the afternoon cleaning up all my equipment and preparing to brew again next weekend (hopefully).

 

[Catt22]

Catt, what mill and gearmotor you using for 115 rpm output?

I scored a brand new Bodine parallel shaft AC gearmotor. I have a Phil Mill I which is no longer in production. Too bad as it is a very good mill. I got the gearmotor for almost nothing. It produces 68 inch-lbs of torgue and it's nearly unstoppable. I hooked it up with the Lovejoy spider couplings for a direct drive arrangement. i particularly like this mill because you can adjust the gap while it is in operation with the turn of a thumb screw. This makes it very fast, easy and convenient when dialing in the crush. I do this visually. No tools or feeler gauges needed.

 

[vonZwicky]

I scored a brand new Bodine parallel shaft AC gearmotor. I have a Phil Mill I which is no longer in production. Too bad as it is a very good mill. I got the gearmotor for almost nothing. It produces 68 inch-lbs of torgue and it's nearly unstoppable. I hooked it up with the Lovejoy spider couplings for a direct drive arrangement. i particularly like this mill because you can adjust the gap while it is in operation with the turn of a thumb screw. This makes it very fast, easy and convenient when dialing in the crush. I do this visually. No tools or feeler gauges needed.

Catt22, Your work and insight have been inspiring. I have my mill, motor, and gearbox. I've also collected wheels, couplers, screens, bearings and bushings... still shopping for the right wood to pull it all together. I'm trying to design an easily portable machine, but all this stuff is a lot heavier than I thought it would be! But I think I have a plan.

Stay tuned... when I start the build, I'll post a link to the thread here.

 

[BrewBeemer]

IMO, milling relatively slowly is desirable for several reasons. Less wear and tear on the mill, generates much less grain dust and it's quieter. I'm running quite slow myself at only 115 rpm and about 2+ lbs/min throughput. The usual problem is getting the mill to run slower, not faster.

I'm the odd duck I need a rpm step up with the 1/3 hp 1750 Baldor Industrial motor that's factory mated to a Precision Gear worm drive of 60:1 or 29.166 rpm output 565 in/lbs TQ. I planned a speed up to a jackshaft 115:28 (odd ratio skip pattern) toothed 5mm pitched HT belt no slippage. Other end of jackshaft a Lovejoy direct to the MM3-2.0 preventing any bushing side loading. Mill speed 119.79 rpm at 137.56 in/lbs TQ (11.46 ft/lbs). This should be enough torque to handle the mill speed, 25# hopper is also in the plans.

 

[vonZwicky]

This has been a long time coming, but I finally got around to starting a build thread for my mill:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/vonzwickys-mill-build-320061/#post3979407