Serious MORAL dilemma

[isac777]

My homebrew sensei and I are at a lets say disagreeance. We are entering a local Ipa competition and he says we should enter our all grain ipa in two categories extract and all grain b/c the judges will score the beer higher in the extract than the all grain just to kind of pull the wool over their eyes, not so much to trick them but as he says "they should know the difference" . I say the judges are there with your parameters to judge with the info you have given them. If I am NFL wr and play in pee wee football of course i'm gonna look good. Then I said why even enter it if you are gonna lie, your just gonna fool yourself. Where do you guys stand on this issue. what is the law of the land?

 

[buzzkill]

karma going ta get cha. good or bad. and some "win" wont make a rats ### if you are shaddy.

 

[arturo7]

AG category only. Is your sensei that desperate for validation?

 

[zanemoseley]

Somebody has small man syndrome huh. Is this guy really that sad or just pathetically eager to win a medal?

 

[Nurmey]

If you don't have integrity, you don't have nothing. Are you sure you want to keep your sensei? Maybe it's time you graduated.

 

[ArtVandelay]

Who says it will even do well in Extract anyway? Just because it is AG and all extract sucks?

 

[motobrewer]

^ I agree.

I think the whole AG = NFL and extract = pee wee football analogy is just wrong.

while i don't think you should enter it as an extract, there's nothing saying that it will do any better.

i think submitting an extract beer as an AG would be less morally wrong and more of an experiment

 

[Airborneguy]

Beer medals really mean nothing... except to the winner. As such, if you were to win with this little bit of under-handedness, it ruins the whole experience.

 

[osagedr]

If you don't have your integrity, you don't have a whole lot. That you even posted the question here tells me you know the answer.

And...you should provide some ethical guidance to your "sensei."

 

[smizak]

If you don't have your integrity, you don't have a whole lot. That you even posted the question here tells me you know the answer.

And...you should provide some ethical guidance to your "sensei."

Exactly.

You should respect the judging and competition philosophy of homebrewing. We're here to help you make better beer, not for you to let us know how much more you know than we do. Be honest.

 

[sirsloop]

How are you gonna feel if you win extract with an AG beer?

 

[funkapottomous]

seriously, you wouldn't be asking if you didn't see anything wrong with it.

 

[Nugent]

You should respect the judging and competition philosophy of homebrewing. We're here to help you make better beer, not for you to let us know how much more you know than we do. Be honest.

+1!!!

How are you or your 'sensei' going to learn anything by being dishonest? Isn't part of entering a competition (which I have never done, by the way) about getting feedback from people who have some experience with tasting and judging beer? What philosophy about homebrewing is being subscribed to by this idea?

If any of these questions require a lot of thought, you have your answer.

 

[Doc Robinson]

If I am NFL wr and play in pee wee football of course i'm gonna look good.

I don't think so. I would think that you were either a retard, a pedophile, or an assh*ole.

Brew AG, enter AG.

 

[bsteele]

Just buy an IPA and peel off the label. They'll never know *shhhhhh*


I kid, I kid.

 

[tom777]

How are you gonna feel if you win extract with an AG beer?

Or, if you didn't win.. oops... bummer.

 

[FlashRedGLS18T]

It's all been said. AG to be judged as an AG.

 

[Baldy_Beer_Brewery]

You need a new brew partner.

 

[Edcculus]

Just out of curiosity, what comp is this? I don't claim to be all knowing about comps, but I've just never heard of one with categories for AG and extract. Whtats the point?

 

[ajwillys]

Cheating is not winning.

 

[passedpawn]

karma going ta get cha.

Best answer.

Oh, and this is no moral dilemma like Sophies' Choice or something. To cheat or not to cheat?

 

[Homercidal]

I've never ever seen a comp with separate cats for extract and AG. Now you can make some mighty fine extract beer, just as good as AG if you know what you are doing. However, not only are you CHEATING by breaking a very obviously important rule, you are going to get incorrect feedback which might prove useful for improving your beer.

Things in life are rarely ever Black and White, but in this case I think there IS a Black and a White.

 

[shortyjacobs]

I thought the whole idea of a competition was to learn how good your beer really by other people's judgements, not to see if you can fool the judges....

 

[ChrisS68]

Kind of bastardizes the term "Sensei", don't you think?

 

[Cliff897]

We are entering a local Ipa competition

Cool.

and he says we should enter our all grain ipa in two categories

Cool.

extract and all grain b/c the judges will score the beer higher in the extract than the all grain just to kind of pull the wool over their eyes, not so much to trick them but as he says "they should know the difference" .

And that's the rub huh? The aspect of dishonesty. Your gut is spot on.

This is what I suggest:
Tell him he is free to enter his IPA under his name only in any category he pleases (all by himself), but you will stick with your gut.

That's what I'd do anyway.

Here's why:
Once someone labels you with a negative such as "dishonest" you will not likely ever recover from it.

I understand the part about him claiming that it won't fool any one, but he mere fact of falsely entering the brew in the wrong category is cheating whether or not you actually fool any one and cheating is dishonest.
You run the very serious rick of shooting your reputation in both feet.

And not for nothin' but the people who enter contests and do the judging are most always taking themselves, the contest, and their personal efforts very seriously. It's simply not the place for "gotch-ya fooled-ya" type horsing around.

 

[david_42]

Very sad indeed, he's a loser either way.

 

[beerjunky828]

To me personally, I could care less. I mean if you want to do it then do it. yOu probably won't gain any useful criticism for the beer being entered as an extract. I mean cheating the judges will cause what?? your beer to be scored higher than most extract brews. Who knows, the AG IPA might get beat by a better extract brew and then it will prove that you can make stellar beer from extract. That is about the only thing I would gain from this experience if you were to place 2nd or 3rd or not at all. I don't think it makes him an a**hole, it just makes him not want to become a better brewer.

 

[BlueSunshine]

i think submitting an extract beer as an AG would be less morally wrong and more of an experiment

I'm honestly curious if the judges would be able to tell the difference. I'd like to see someone do that just as a goof.

 

[osagedr]

To me personally, I could care less. I mean if you want to do it then do it.

Ah, words to live by.

 

[funkapottomous]

I've never ever seen a comp with separate cats for extract and AG. Now you can make some mighty fine extract beer, just as good as AG if you know what you are doing. However, not only are you CHEATING by breaking a very obviously important rule, you are going to get incorrect feedback which might prove useful for improving your beer.

Things in life are rarely ever Black and White, but in this case I think there IS a Black and a White.

or a black and tan.....

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........