Serious MORAL dilemma

[remilard]

I'm honestly curious if the judges would be able to tell the difference. I'd like to see someone do that just as a goof.

It is certainly interesting and informative to have ringers judged in competitions (and it happens all the time), but it should be done with the knowledge of the competition organizer. Violating the rules of the competition is so clearly wrong that I am surprised there can be any discussion.

 

[Sigafoos]

Competitions have separate AG and extract categories? Beer is beer.

 

[Erythro73]

It reminds me of a South Park episode where Cartman entered the paralympics because he thought he could win easily against handicaped persons. (I'm an extract brewer, so I do not consider extract brewer to be handicaped, don't get me wrong, but that seems to be how the so-call sensei think.)

But then he failed. And it was very funny.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

I think it would be interesting to see if Judges can tell the difference, but obviously a Competition is not the place for that. Unless you can get a few of them together after for some kind of blind taste test. But in the end it doesn't really matter. Like others have said, you already know what to do, your just looking for validation.

And yeah, get a new brew partner.

 

[isac777]

thanks for all the good info it seems to be the census that he is in fact a clown in this aspect. The way I look at it-enter a beer to the best of your knowledge with the ingredients you know of and done deal right. I myself have only entered one competition with one beer and it scored a 29,30,31 over three judges and I really thought it was interesting (the score sheet from the judges) they gave great insight and it was just cool ya know? I enjoy it bc it seems like a lot of people like my beer in general so criticism is nice. He seems to just be against judging, I don't know. I know it is all in the eye of the beholder and there is no official scale to judge by. I once heard a story of these fine wine aficionados who kept this very expensive bottle of wine for a long time aging for their anniversary. When their anniversary was upon them they opened it and "ohh how amazing it was" . They wrote about how great the bottle was giving rave reviews and lots of points. To their dismay they noticed the next time in the cellar that they had opened not their thousands of dollar bottle but a readily available $20 bottle. The mind can play tricks. Thanks for the great replies.
MY NAME IS ONLY GOING ON TRUTHFUL ENTRIES! DONE DEAL

 

[tom777]

you won't regret doing the right thing.

 

[l1ranger]

MY NAME IS ONLY GOING ON TRUTHFUL ENTRIES! DONE DEAL

good to hear

 

[Homercidal]

Good job, Grasshopper. You have passed your first test!

In order to pass your next exam, you must ship a case of your IPA to me.

 

[Sigafoos]

Oh, judging is SO subjective. Anyone who tells you differently is a liar. There have been plenty of studies showing that the stated cost affects perceived quality. But if he doesn't like judges then enter the lottery or something.

And to be clear: I think it's fine to enter a beer into more than one category (oatmeal stout/dry & sweet, etc), and -- if the competition says it's okay -- more than one beer into a category. But if it's an extract only one (like, say, my club's COC in May /plug) and you enter an AG then you're a *********.

Edit: so many censored words on the site, and yet dbag is fine

 

[remilard]

Competitions have separate AG and extract categories? Beer is beer.

There are a lot of competitions.

You may be interested in knowing that, beer being beer and all, Imperial IPAs are judged separately from Imperial Stouts.

All other beers are grouped together and assigned a score of zero.

Wait, I thought we were on BA for a second.

 

[Jud]

It reminds me of a South Park episode where Cartman entered the paralympics because he thought he could win easily against handicaped persons. QUOTE]

I have not entered a beer in any competition. But here is what I think. Do you enjoy your beer. Do your buddies enjoy your beer? Cause in the end that is who is going to be drinking and judging your beer. And that is who you are going to be brewing for.

 

[Synovia]

But if it's an extract only one (like, say, my club's COC in May /plug) and you enter an AG then you're a *********.

While I think it makes him a *********, if the guy isn't going to win the AG category with his IPA, he probably isn't going to win the Extract category either.

 

[Munsoned]

MY NAME IS ONLY GOING ON TRUTHFUL ENTRIES! DONE DEAL

The "Brewer's Code" thanks you.

 

[smizak]

There are a lot of competitions.

You may be interested in knowing that, beer being beer and all, Imperial IPAs are judged separately from Imperial Stouts.

All other beers are grouped together and assigned a score of zero.

Wait, I thought we were on BA for a second.

Hahaha, awesome.

 

[Edcculus]

There are a lot of competitions.

You may be interested in knowing that, beer being beer and all, Imperial IPAs are judged separately from Imperial Stouts.

All other beers are grouped together and assigned a score of zero.

Wait, I thought we were on BA for a second.

Bazing! I almost spit the black and tan I made out of Imperial IPA and Imperial Stout all over my screen!

I still say entering the correct category is the right call. Like others said, if the comp allows it, there is no reason not to enter a beer in more than one style. Sometimes a beer, like maybe a porter can potentially fall under a few styles. You may have an IIPA that could pass as a Barleywine, or a big FES thats bordering on a RIS. If your friend is against judging, thats his deal. Its not really right to screw with a competition to prove a point though.

 

[jjones17]

karma going ta get cha. good or bad. and some "win" wont make a rats ### if you are shaddy.

Who is Karma, and why would he 'get' him? Seriously, if this Karma guy has issues, screw him.

I say, use your own judgement. Personally, when I make decisions like this I look at 2 variables in order of importance:

1) Will this significantly improve the likelihood of my, or my families, survival? If it has nothing to do with survival or with a MUCH increased possibility of enjoyment of life I go immediately to #2.
2) If someone did this to me, how would I feel about it? If I am not affecting someone else negatively, that does not deserve it, then I just go ahead with it.

So, if it were me.... I probably would just enter it in the all-grain, simply because by doing so if I win I will feel much better about myself. I could care less about this Karma guy, whoever he is, and I care even less whether I am cheating or not. This is simply a personal gratification decision for me.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Sounds to me like your LHBS guy is looking to make himself look better at your expense. The more medals he can say he's helped with, the better he looks and the more people will come to him for advice and purchases.

 

[jjones17]

Sounds to me like your LHBS guy is looking to make himself look better at your expense. The more medals he can say he's helped with, the better he looks and the more people will come to him for advice and purchases.

Woah, you may have hit the nail on the head.

 

[Edcculus]

Who is Karma, and why would he 'get' him? Seriously, if this Karma guy has issues, screw him.

He is one mean motherf#ucker!

 

[StAnthonyB]

My homebrew sensei and I are at a lets say disagreeance. We are entering a local Ipa competition and he says we should enter our all grain ipa in two categories extract and all grain b/c the judges will score the beer higher in the extract than the all grain just to kind of pull the wool over their eyes, not so much to trick them but as he says "they should know the difference" . I say the judges are there with your parameters to judge with the info you have given them. If I am NFL wr and play in pee wee football of course i'm gonna look good. Then I said why even enter it if you are gonna lie, your just gonna fool yourself. Where do you guys stand on this issue. what is the law of the land?

Good on you for recognizing the dilemma.

I saw poll way back that showed most homebrewers are not exactly believers, but I think this one is covered under "Thou shalt not bear false witness." Stuff like this tends to nip you in the keister eventually.

I happen to know a reputable local brewer who now has his own commercial line of beers, who duped the judged for years using the ready-to-go extract kits and dry yeast and submitting fake recipes. This was bragged to me, perhaps, less than prudently. But, hey, he got away with it; awards and money to boot. I guess some judges are better than others.



Man may not believe in the Idea of God.
It sure is a good thing God believes in the Idea of Man.

-GK Chesterton, British journalist and proto-co-founder of the real ale movement.

 

[JetSmooth]

He sounds like the kind of guy who enters a pinewood derby race "for his son" and then build the car all by himself and maybe lets his kid pick the color.

You can always tell the cards that the kids build versus the ones the father's build.

OT: I didn't know GK Chersteron was involved in the Real Ale movement. Just started learning about it myself, but I know of him from Christian philosophy circles. Interesting.

 

[SteveM]

The whole idea of competitions can get me a bit queasy because of stuff like this. I've brewed beers that I thought were competition-worthy, but I've never entered any. Why? Basically because I don't care how other people feel about my beers. I make them for my taste, not for any one else's.

Even tastings can get this way at times, but I go to them sometimes so I can see what other people are doing and maybe (ahem - steal some ideas to) make my beers better. The first time I tried Amarillo hops was at a tasting, and I've hardly made a batch without them since.