Secondary problems

[Moggbomber]

Alright, so I'm still a buch beginner; on my 8th batch, but only the 6th of my current scoby (plus babies). I've done my share of wines and fruit ferments.

My problems:
-I cannot form a new thick Scoby
-my batches never produce enough CO2 to carbonate anything

My environment; downstairs in a pantry, mostly dark, but it currently stays a solid 77 degrees (summer). I use the magic ratio (~13 cups of water, 1 cup of sugar, ~2 cups of buch or white vinegar). For the tea, I use loose at about 1.5 tablespoons of Darjeeling black and about 1 tablespoon of a non-flavored green. I recently replaced the green with Oolong, but I'm still waiting for that batch to finish.

My batches ALWAYS take about 15-20 days to hit that "nice tart" stage.

Even at finish, the newly formed scobies are no more than an 1/8" thick.

When I move the buch to a bottle for secondary fermentation, I've tried adding just sugar, just fruit, fruit and sugar, and nothing. I've waited as long as 3 whole days (and moved it to an 80 degree area).

Nothing. I usually don't even get bubbles in the batch. I don't believe it's the scoby, since I'm still forming scobies and it's still brewing...it's just taking forever.

Alright, sorry for the life story. Any ideas???? hints? Thanks!

 

[Spaceman]

Hello, can you attach a picture of what your current ferm vessel looks like w/ the scobies? Do you just have the one container?

From what I have read above, it sounds like your yeast has gone dormant or is no longer functioning. Not to say that there is anything wrong with a 15-20 days ferm (sometimes the fermentation is just slow), but something isn't working here. My first thought is that your bacteria are still alive and eating the nutrients from the tea and giving you some tartness. However, without active yeast to cleave the sugar into ethanol and CO2, you are missing a huge part of booch making!

No ethanol - less food for your bacteria - less tartness. No CO2 and you won't be seeing any bubbles form around the outside of the scoby like you normally would. Do you still taste a high level of sweetness in addition to the "nice tart"?

Are your secondary ferm bottles totally sealed? If you aren't seeing bubbles here then there is definitely something wrong with your yeast. Also, you are still getting new baby scobies since that is a cellulose formation from the bacteria activity. You should see dark brown strands/globs and sediment on the bottom of your container if the yeast are alive and kicking.

 

[Moggbomber]

Hey, Spaceman. Thanks for the reply. I attached a picture, though it probably could be clearer....you can see the thinness of the forming scoby as well as the older ones below. Very thin.

As for the yeast idea, that was my assumption in some part; that the yeast is not "right". While you can't see it well in the picture, there are "yeastie bits" in the fermented, and I normally have had them in each batch. However, since I've never had a real successful batch, I don't know how much yeast I should be seeing.

To answer your questions, it is still generally fairly sweet for the level of tartness. I also only have one fermenter.

I have been reusing GT bottles for secondary, which seal very well. I have had a couple bottles build up a small bit of co2, but that was after 3 days, and it was VERY little.

Should I maybe try moving the primary to a warmer area? 78-80 degrees? What about disturbing the air around the fermenter more to keep fresh O2 in contact with the liquid?

Thanks!

 

[Spaceman]

There's nothing necessarily "wrong" with a thin scoby in my opinion. Mine only grow to about 1/4" thick, it all depends on how much nutrients are available. Yours might be thin from the lack of ethanol for the bacteria to eat. I do think the issue here is your yeast, it has probably become dormant. 77 degrees should be fine for your ferm, so I wouldn't change that. As for airflow, maybe take it out of the closet so it gets a little more air. I leave mine out on the kitchen counter (no light exposure though). Someone on another thread was having a similar issue so I'm going to post my recommendation I gave to them, see below.

Make a half gallon (2 quart) batch of your normal tea mixture, but use HALF the sugar that you normally would (1/4 cup in this case). Use only your newest scoby for this batch. Do not add the scoby and starter tea until the temperature of the tea mixture has come back to room temp. We don't want to shock the dormant yeast with temperature extremes. Watch this new batch over the next week or so, look for signs of yeast activity (bubbles and brown bits/strands), and let me know if it is coming back to life!

This should help reactivate the yeast.

 

[Moggbomber]

OK, I'll try this during my next round. Just a couple questions;

-you say a half gallon of normal tea, so since I normally make a gallon, should I use half the a amount or the same (double the concentration or same concentration)?

- and normally I use 1 cup of sugar, so should I use a half cup or the 1/4 you recommend here?

Thanks!

 

[Spaceman]

So the reason i recommend making a half gallon batch is because this isn't going to really be for drinking, it's to get the yeast going again and provide starter tea for your future batches.

Sorry for the confusion about the ingredients, let me clarify. Cut everything that you would normally use in half, and only use 1/4 of the sugar that you normally would (1/4 c. in this case). Having too much sugar can actually keep the yeast in their dormant state which is why I recommend using just a small amount.

 

[Moggbomber]

Ah, OK. Gotcha thanks for the clarification. I will do that next week and see what happens.

 

[sallywbloom]

Ok I am on my first batch with my new scoby And my scoby is so slow growing 2 weeks paper thin at bottom of jar nit ateacher to mothe scoby. Room temp, air flow are good. I think it is tooooo much sugar. What can I do??

 

[Spaceman]

Ok I am on my first batch with my new scoby And my scoby is so slow growing 2 weeks paper thin at bottom of jar nit ateacher to mothe scoby. Room temp, air flow are good. I think it is tooooo much sugar. What can I do??

Do you have a new scoby growing on the surface?