Second BIAB....scratching head...why don't more do this?

[Black Island Brewer]

Also in the pic is my sous vide system that allows me to hold the mash temps to perfection with out needing to fire up the ole propane.
Just my take on all this...brew on...

I have the avona sous vide cooker as well, and was thinking about trying this. Do you get any scorching on the element?

The bluetooth connection on this makes it great for monitoring and timing, I'd also be interested in trying a step mash with this setup.

 

[aviator24]

Not sure of the exact model sous vide but I bought it from Best Buy a few months ago for about $150. I have used it with about half a dozen BIAB's so far and never had an issue with scorching. About the only issue I have had was getting the cooker to the wort level when I do a normal sized batch, I use zip ties for that without any trouble. It cleans up really easy with hot water and really helps to dial in and hold my mash temps.
I only learned of this from other BIAB brewers who have also used this device with great success. It really makes my mash as a "set it and forget it" process.

 

[cegan09]

A desire, yes, a market, probably not - too many pot sizes, and too expensive to make custom every time. But it's the way I made my BIAB system, so that it's portable - I like to to group brews, and I teach homebrewing, so I needed a pulley system that didn't depend on a garage beam to hold the pulley.

In the background is my 3-vessel two tier. I like brewing, and I like the flexibility of multiple systems, and I have a space big enough to accommodate that desire.

I'm just here to say I"m stealing your insulation setup. I had wrapped my kettle and taped it in place with HVAC aluminum tape, but it makes cleanup annoying. Your method looks awesome. I will be copying that for sure.


I see no reason to bash anyone for liking and sticking to any particular method. If they're happy, let them be happy. I picked BIAB because I don't have a lot of space (apartment). Then I jumped down the rabbit hole into electric with a RIMS and custom stand. Couldn't be happier. When I finally move into a bigger place I'll probably remake my system on a larger pot and move to 240V (right now i'm stuck with 120 only)

crappy picture of my setup. Not shown is the overhead arm that goes on to lift the bag from.

 

[Will-D]

I have the avona sous vide cooker as well, and was thinking about trying this. Do you get any scorching on the element?

The bluetooth connection on this makes it great for monitoring and timing, I'd also be interested in trying a step mash with this setup.

I've used my sous vide for keeping temp while kettle souring several times and never had any issues with scorching, never used it to keep temp during mash though. You'd definitely need a separate pump to circulate the wort as the Anova will not be able to circulate the entire volume.

 

[Conman2U]

I've used my sous vide for keeping temp while kettle souring several times and never had any issues with scorching, never used it to keep temp during mash though. You'd definitely need a separate pump to circulate the wort as the Anova will not be able to circulate the entire volume.

ok, just googled the "sous vide"...WOW! basically a consistent temperature? I might have to invest in one of these. As far as circulation, what are you using for that?

 

[phendog]

I'm doing one tomorrow morning. Been wanting to do a step mash Kolsch but cant direct fire my mash tun and I really suck at hitting batch sparge temps. BIAB is perfect for this. Very easy to maintain and raise temp when everything is in a bag in the boil kettle. Good stirring is the key though so you dont scorch.

 

[bajaedition]

I'm doing one tomorrow morning. Been wanting to do a step mash Kolsch but cant direct fire my mash tun and I really suck at hitting batch sparge temps. BIAB is perfect for this. Very easy to maintain and raise temp when everything is in a bag in the boil kettle. Good stirring is the key though so you dont scorch.

either lift the bag off the bottom a little or put a trivet in there

 

[RM-MN]

I'm doing one tomorrow morning. Been wanting to do a step mash Kolsch but cant direct fire my mash tun and I really suck at hitting batch sparge temps. BIAB is perfect for this. Very easy to maintain and raise temp when everything is in a bag in the boil kettle. Good stirring is the key though so you dont scorch.

Quit worrying about batch sparge temps. Water from the tap is approximately as efficient as boiling water. Anywhere in between is fine.:rockin:

 

[eric19312]

I seriously considered BIAB when I got started in all grain 4 years ago. At the time major advantage I could see was I would not need to buy 3 kettles. I ended up going 3 vessel anyway, initially buying a 10 gal bk and a cooler with a bazooka tube (early days I was 2 vessel with a couple old stock pots standing by to heat up sparge water). Over time added a second kettle (buddies 15gal kettle) and then a third when we finally built a brew stand and got rid of the cooler. Love my system now and have it dialed in for me. Did two batches last weekend solo brewing 23 gallons total took about 10 hours including clean up.

I understand the comment about asking a virgin the explain sex but I would address a few straw horses I see in above arguments...actually on both sides of the argument.

First dripping issues
...I can attest to the story about dripping hoses everywhere and need for occasional hose out/scrubing of the garage floor with my system. Yes I have heard of strategies to better contain the drips but trays are just too much of a bother and something else to clean. Hard plumbed with CIP is an interesting idea but I do believe you need bottom draining kettles to make that work. I put casters on the stand so easy enough to roll it out of the way.
...but unless I am missing something there must be some hoses involved in BIAB too no? At least if I did it there would be a kettle drain leading to a pump returning to a recirculation/whirlpool inlet. Maybe that is not necessary but I'd probably overengineer BIAB and have that and so you are back to drippy hoses with either system.

Second thing I keep reading is how difficult it must be to clean 3 vessels. That is overstating the issue. I don't ever clean the HLT. I just dump it out and store it upside down until next brew day. The mash tun gets hosed off with my cooling water. Maybe a stainless steel scrubbie gets applied while that is happening but it is done before wort is transfered to fermentors.

Capacity would be an issue for me. My typical grain bill is 25lbs. I have a couple recipes that go to 32. That would be a pretty big kettle for BIAB right? Would be cool to figure out the pully system and I do have rafters so that is a wash but clearly my 15 gallon kettle would not suffice.

I liked a comment above #lump42 about only heating half the mash water before starting the mash. That would be a real issue for me. I have three burners and use all of them. I run my system off household NG which is quiet and convenient but maybe not as hot as a 200.000 high pressure propane flame thrower. I've done tests and see I am getting something like 50k BTUs transfered into the kettle. That means it takes ma about 40 min to heat strike water and if I had to heat the full volume before starting the time would be considerable. But my sparge water is heating while I mash and if I am double batching my batch 2 strike water is heating as soon as the full volume of water has transferred to the mash tun. By the time I finish lautering, dump and rinse the mash tun, I am just about ready to start mashing batch 2.

 

[wilserbrewer]

All good points Eric.

You're correct, with a single vessel full volume mash it can take substantial time to heat the full volume. The upside is that while it may take more time, there is no effort transferring the water around as you do in 3v, not a big deal but effort is certainly required. A 5500w electric element is very efficient in this regard. With electric I don't feel the need to supervise the liquor heating as much as I did using an open flame, and it's easy to automate or just know it takes roughly a set amount of time. So this time can be either "out of brewery" or doing other tasks.

You're again correct in that a larger vessel is needed for BIAB full volume mash. Likely 25-30 gallons in your case.

As far as the mess etc., doing larger batches as you describe, I have found mash temps reasonably stable due to the large mass of mash, and wouldn't bother to recirculate with a pump. But if you enjoy over engineering there is always a price to pay... .

As far as a hoist, that issue can be aolved rather easily and relatively inexpensively, 15-50 bucks depending on your desires.

Thanks for the input, your points are valid.

 

[Will-D]

ok, just googled the "sous vide"...WOW! basically a consistent temperature? I might have to invest in one of these. As far as circulation, what are you using for that?

I don't use my sous vide device to hold mash temps, I've only used it for holding temp while kettle souring and the device itself has enough circulation for that. You'd need an external pump if you wanted to circulate while mashing.

 

[wilson42203]

I brew 3- and 5-gallon batches, mostly of lighter lagers, so a 10-gallon kettle works well for me. I have no problem lifting and squeezing the bag, and I have no mess at the end. That being said, any really big beers over 5 gallons, or a larger batch of any style, would start to be an issue with BIAB.

As for me, I love it.

 

[Tommydee]

There is false info on this thread.

BIAB doesn't make a "hot sticky mess" that I've heard over and over
I brew indoors in my kitchen. You hoist the bag,let it drain for a bit and transfer the bag to a 5 gallon bucket next to the pot.

If I get 2 drips its a lot and that's with 22 pounds of grain in a 12 gallon batch.

Also I've read its no good for a double batch. Again totally false. All I do is brew 12 gallon batches and it works perfectly fine. A gallon of water which is what the grain absorbs weighs 8 pounds so that would bring the bag to around 30 pounds. I suppose if you cant move 30 pounds that would be an issue but then again a 5 gallon bucket of beer weighs around 40 pounds so if you can move your fermenter you can LOWER the bag into a bucket.

If your not into BIAB that's fine but enough with the "hot sticky mess" nonsense.

I brew in my nice kitchen and wouldn't ruin it over brewing beer...

BIAB makes awesome beer with almost no equipment and a super easy cleanup

How are you doing 12 gallon batches indoors? Must have a big range.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

How are you doing 12 gallon batches indoors? Must have a big range.

Its an Electric setup. 5500 Watt plugged into the dryer outlet

 

[estricklin]

I'm thinking of starting another thread titled, "Virgins please share your opinions on sex"

Kinda how I feel when those that have never tried BIAB, or observed a well executed one comment on their perceived yet non existent problems.

Ime, a well managed BIAB can be less messy than the other more traditional methods. The key is to keep the bag over the kettle so any spills go right back in the kettle where they belong.

I recall watching a member here brew on his single tier keggle system with pumps, every time he changed a connection he had a puddle on the garage floor lol.

I suppose you could keep a drip bucket handy and try and catch that spillage every time you move a hose? Lots of 3V brewers talk of hosing out the garage or mopping up after a brew. Doesn't sound like fun to me.

With regard to a heavy saturated BIAB with 25 lbs of grain, the key is to slowly raise it from the kettle, so the wort drains as the bag is being removed from the kettle and never needs to be lifted. With a 2 part pulley, lifting the bag is no more effort than lifting and dumping a 25 lb grain bill to the mash tun, or moving a 5 gallon keg to the keezer. 2-1 mechanical advantage is a wonderful thing. I would think just about anyone can easily pull downward with 20- 30 lbs force.

Oh and I hear about all the effort of buying a lag screw for $1.49 and installing it in the ceiling of your garage or laundry room, that's about as much effort as changing a light bulb in a ceiling fixture. Lol cheers

Oh and FWIW, I'm not just a BIAB brewer, I still use a mash tun occasionally and batch sparge to mix it up a bit. Interesting to note though when I occasionally do my max batch size of 15.5 gallons, I BIAB as I don't have a MT large enough But 24 gallon kettle that is perfect for large batch BIAB, point being with a decent pulley, BIAB is a viable option for larger batches ime.

The whole nature of BIAB is that's is super simple, can be done with almost any setup.

If I can do 25 gallons BIAB in a 25 gallon kettle, a lot of things are POSSIBLE, but maybe not that practical haha!

I enjoy the time and simplicity of BIAB, I do usually get a little lower efficiency though. Not a problem at all on smaller batches or lower gravity beers but there are pros and cons to any brewing system.

I prefer fly sparging, and when I get my system totally upgraded to full electric/Arduino that's what I will do 100% of the time. BIAB was a great way for me to do larger batches with minimal equipment investment and time savings until I can get my system finished.

I am honestly surprised more homebrewers don't BIAB.

 

[Black Island Brewer]

It might be worth noting that the recent episode of Brew Strong on "poli-gyle" mashing would make it very easy to do big beers in a smaller BIAB kettle.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I got a rockin' deal on a cooler mash tun brewing setup (complete with kettle, burner, kegs, carboys, and the other goodies) so that's the way I started.

Honestly, I like that the process more closely resembles the "real" process and I think it's fun. I could easily switch to BIAB, but it'd require more equipment and re-learning my equipment profile with little benefit.

I also like that maintaining mash temp is so easy. I have nailed my temp each time and then I have an hour or so to do other things. With BIAB, I'd have to hover over it to ensure my temp doesn't wander too far.

I am interested in doing small batch BIAB in my kitchen....I think it'll be the best way to keep brewing when the temps drop big time this coming winter. I started in March of this year so I haven't had to deal with wintertime brewing yet.

In short, different strokes. Everyone should brew the way that suits them. I am giddy as a schoolgirl the week leading up to a brew day (tomorrow for me), and that's a good sign that I'm having fun! I hope everyone else finds it as rewarding as I do.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I'm thinking of starting another thread titled, "Virgins please share your opinions on sex"

Kinda how I feel when those that have never tried BIAB, or observed a well executed one comment on their perceived yet non existent problems.

Ime, a well managed BIAB can be less messy than the other more traditional methods. The key is to keep the bag over the kettle so any spills go right back in the kettle where they belong.

I recall watching a member here brew on his single tier keggle system with pumps, every time he changed a connection he had a puddle on the garage floor lol.

I suppose you could keep a drip bucket handy and try and catch that spillage every time you move a hose? Lots of 3V brewers talk of hosing out the garage or mopping up after a brew. Doesn't sound like fun to me.

With regard to a heavy saturated BIAB with 25 lbs of grain, the key is to slowly raise it from the kettle, so the wort drains as the bag is being removed from the kettle and never needs to be lifted. With a 2 part pulley, lifting the bag is no more effort than lifting and dumping a 25 lb grain bill to the mash tun, or moving a 5 gallon keg to the keezer. 2-1 mechanical advantage is a wonderful thing. I would think just about anyone can easily pull downward with 20- 30 lbs force.

Oh and I hear about all the effort of buying a lag screw for $1.49 and installing it in the ceiling of your garage or laundry room, that's about as much effort as changing a light bulb in a ceiling fixture. Lol cheers

Oh and FWIW, I'm not just a BIAB brewer, I still use a mash tun occasionally and batch sparge to mix it up a bit. Interesting to note though when I occasionally do my max batch size of 15.5 gallons, I BIAB as I don't have a MT large enough But 24 gallon kettle that is perfect for large batch BIAB, point being with a decent pulley, BIAB is a viable option for larger batches ime.

The only thing I use a pump for is whirlpooling. I'd still be doing that (and having resulting drips) even if I did BIAB. It's funny, but some people get all evangelical about their choices and seem to want everyone to make the same choices they did. Some, perhaps, have something to gain by getting people to adopt their ways.

Personally, I'd prefer everyone brew the way that works best for them. Brewing should be fun, should have whatever level of process that makes people happy. There are a lot of hobbies where the ritual is as big a big part of the experience as the destination. Not everyone is looking to expedite and simplify. Some of us like the brewing rituals we have. I see no reason to campaign for them to change and I don't campaign for others to do it "my way".

 

[Epos7]

I brew outside on my deck, and I just keep a hose handy to spray down any messes. I also lay my bag down on the deck and spray it off with the hose. I don't use a pulley, and with 10 gallon batches getting the bag out and squeezing is an exercise in caution. I usually have someone around to help, and since I've found a colander that fits the opening of my kettle it's become a little easier.

Even with BIAB I spend so much time cleaning. When I was buying brewing equipment last year BIAB was an easy choice - less equipment to store and clean. A lot of my time is spent lugging my brewing equipment out of the basement and putting it back away when I'm done. One day I'll have a dedicated brewing area, and that will save me at least an hour every brew day

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I brew outside on my deck, and I just keep a hose handy to spray down any messes. I also lay my bag down on the deck and spray it off with the hose. I don't use a pulley, and with 10 gallon batches getting the bag out and squeezing is an exercise in caution. I usually have someone around to help, and since I've found a colander that fits the opening of my kettle it's become a little easier.

Even with BIAB I spend so much time cleaning. When I was buying brewing equipment last year BIAB was an easy choice - less equipment to store and clean. A lot of my time is spent lugging my brewing equipment out of the basement and putting it back away when I'm done. One day I'll have a dedicated brewing area, and that will save me at least an hour every brew day

I start by setting up my Kettle and burner. Get my salts added and water heating. Then I set everything else up so that I'm not just sitting waiting for the water to get to temp.

Similarly, I clean up what I can while mashing and clean what I can during the boil. I mix my sanitizer during the boil and sanitize the fermentation equipment while boiling as well. By the time I've pitched, I usually have just the kettle and some hoses to wash.

 

[Epos7]

I start by setting up my Kettle and burner. Get my salts added and water heating. Then I set everything else up so that I'm not just sitting waiting for the water to get to temp.

Similarly, I clean up what I can while mashing and clean what I can during the boil. I mix my sanitizer during the boil and sanitize the fermentation equipment while boiling as well. By the time I've pitched, I usually have just the kettle and some hoses to wash.

I do the same, but still end up with a lot of cleaning. I'm lucky to have a deck where I can hose stuff off. I'm usually drinking one of my previous beers while doing all this, so I can't complain too much

I think it takes me 5.5 - 6 hours for a 10 gallon batch, and 5 - 5.5 hours for a 5 gallon batch. Took me an hour to bring a 10 gallon batch up to boil the other day, and it was the hottest day we've had all year!