Scotch Ale missed my numbers

[jturman35]

Hey guys I seem to have issues hitting my numbers. I recently brewed 12/29/17 a Old Highland Scotch Ale which shows a OG1.081, I got 1.063. I pulled a sample today 16days later and checked with my refract and got 1.036. This gives me abv of 3.54% not 7.7%. I used WLP028 and made a 1500ml starter. Is it possible this is still fermenting? Fermenter is set at 65 deg. Seems unlikely this will drop to 1.022.

 

[brewing_clown]

Did you adjust the post-fermentation refractometer reading?

 

[phendog]

Using your refractometer during fermentation??? Did you run the conversation for the presence of alcohol?? Refractometers are great during the brew, but during fermentation i switch to a hydrometer, or ensure my refractometer is calibrated and use a conversation calculator like this one: https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/

 

[kh54s10]

Right, you need to run the FG reading though a calculator to account for the presence of alcohol.

As far as your OG. Missing that is most often attributed to a poor crush on the grain.

 

[jturman35]

Stupid me! Looks like I got 6.08%. Thanks I didn’t realize I needed to convert. Does this look about right?

 

[RM-MN]

Two thing come to mind. Unless you mill your own grain you are at the mercy of the LHBS as to the mash efficiency you get. The recipe was designed for 75% efficiency, you got much less due to the crush of the grain.

The second is that your refractometer is a wonderful tool during the brew day but once the beer has started fermenting the presence of alcohol skews the reading. I'd suggest that you use the hydrometer for the final gravity but if you don't have one there are corrections for the refractometer reading that will get you close.

 

[jturman35]

Yea I have the Brew Boss system with the COFI filter basket. According to B.B. you don’t need the grain crushed as much as other biab setups. This was my first brew using the new set up.

 

[thehaze]

Try to raise the temp. a bit. The yeast can ferment between 65 and 70F. At higher temps. the yeast will work faster and by increasing the temp. you might encourage the yeast to ferment a bit more. Or not.

 

[RM-MN]

Yea I have the Brew Boss system with the COFI filter basket. According to B.B. you don’t need the grain crushed as much as other biab setups. This was my first brew using the new set up.

Reading between the lines I think they are really telling you that their system won't tolerate as fine of a crush as a true BIAB can. I would still try to get a better crush than what you had for this batch.

 

[jturman35]

Will crush make me go from 6% to 7.7% ?

Should I have mashed longer until I hit an OG of 1.081? I have read that conversion takes place in the first 15-30 mins. I just started reading PH and mine was high at 6.2 through the mash cycle. I’m sure this is part of my issue. I just sent my water off to Ward labs to check my mineral content. My next brew I hope to be able to lower my mash ph.

 

[kh54s10]

Will crush make me go from 6% to 7.7% ?

Should I have mashed longer until I hit an OG of 1.081? I have read that conversion takes place in the first 15-30 mins. I just started reading PH and mine was high at 6.2 through the mash cycle. I’m sure this is part of my issue. I just sent my water off to Ward labs to check my mineral content. My next brew I hope to be able to lower my mash ph.

Crush is the most likely to increase your efficiency. Whether you get 7.7% depends on a lot of variables.

Mashing longer will not necessarily help anything.

I haven't taken a pH reading yet in my 6 1/2 years. I am not sure how much difference it makes. Not as much as many think, I expect.

 

[jturman35]

I bumped up my fermenter to 68deg. The sample i pulled was at 64.8 which about where it should be. I also made my first starter for this batch so I was a little discouraged i didnt hit my number. It appears my mash is where i missed it. Looking at Beersmith my BH and Mash efficiency were decent.

Brew house was 74%
Mash 79%

So I’m trying to figure out why I did not come close to 7.7%. Does grain crush play this big of a role?

 

[kh54s10]

Something doesn't seem right. With those efficiencies you should have gotten the right OG. But yes, a poor crush can have that big a role.

Are you sure that you used the proper amount of grain? That is one way you could have good efficiency and low OG.

 

[jturman35]

So here is my water report. Think this will be ok with this Scotch Ale? I believe darker beers benefit more from higher alkaline but calcium seems very low.

 

[jturman35]

Ok so I kegged this last Sunday and going to let it sit up and age. FG came in at 1.022 which puts me at 5.4% instead of 7.3% which is a bummer. I missed my OG by 16 points. I’m trying to learn from this.

I did a Pale Ale using the same LHBS grain crush with the same untreated water profile above and hit my numbers and hit 6.5% abv according to BeerSmith. Is it possible BS is off ? I seem to have a hard time with doing Scotch Ales. My system uses COFI basket from Brew Boss so grain crush shouldn’t be holding me back that much. Would the water profile above cause my mash to have high ph causing poor efficiency?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

So here is my water report. Think this will be ok with this Scotch Ale? I believe darker beers benefit more from higher alkaline but calcium seems very low.

Non-existent more like - and you need calcium in the water for various enzymes to work. Are you doing any water adjustments? A bit of gypsum would work wonders.

Brewersfriend has eg Edinburgh at

Ca Mg Na Cl SO4 HCO3
100 18 20 45 105 235

 

[jturman35]

I just started using distilled water and adding salts now. I have a brown ale fermenting as we speak that I adjusted the water on. On this particular Scotch Ale I used my tap water above. I’m trying to understand why abv was so off on one beer verses another. Sounds like the minerals in my mash are causing poor efficiency. I did measure my ph on this beer and was at 6.1 during the mash. I guess I do dint realize my water was holding me back so much.

 

[jturman35]

Playing with Brunwater here is where it looks like I went wrong. Keep in mind I DID NOT adjust my water. I inserted my tap water so I could see how bad my tap water was for this profile. Now I feel better about my PH meter which was in the 6.2 range during the mash.

 

[jturman35]

This beer is starting to come around a little. When I think of Scotch Ale I think of alcohol and smooth/sweet. I really like the warm alcohol taste followed by sweet. This has a salty taste could just be the recipe. Definitely missing my OG by 16 points didn’t help. Sucks cause I really like a strong Scotch Ale. Dirty Bastard or Old Chub are my favorites. Oh well! It’s not a dumper it will get drunk! May try the Old Chub Clone a second time. I sure am cursed when it comes to brewing Scotch Ales it seems.

 

[JPBrewLI]

May try the Old Chub Clone a second time.

View attachment 557966

How did the first batch taste? which recipe? I just bought my first 6 pack of it and think its one of my new favorites.

 

[RM-MN]

This beer is starting to come around a little. When I think of Scotch Ale I think of alcohol and smooth/sweet. I really like the warm alcohol taste followed by sweet. This has a salty taste could just be the recipe. Definitely missing my OG by 16 points didn’t help. Sucks cause I really like a strong Scotch Ale. Dirty Bastard or Old Chub are my favorites. Oh well! It’s not a dumper it will get drunk! May try the Old Chub Clone a second time. I sure am cursed when it comes to brewing Scotch Ales it seems.

View attachment 557966

If you want this beer to be really smooth, put it away for another 6 months. Darker beers and especially darker with high alcohol take time to mature. The stout I have in my fermenter will be bottled for at least a year before I open one but it is darker than your Scotch ale and the same alcohol content.

The low efficiency that gave your the low OG is due almost entirely to the milling of the grain. How finely you can mill the grain depends on your ability to separate the wort from the grains. If you mash in a bag, be it in a cooler or in the boil pot you can mill the grain to nearly flour and still separate the grain from the wort and that fine milling will make your mash efficiency go through the roof. You can also raise the mash efficiency by making a thinner mash. It's been proven that thin mashes are at least as efficient as thick ones and in many cases more efficient.

 

[jturman35]

My first attempt to brew Old Chub clone was a disaster. I did a smaller batch than I normally do. I scaled the recipe down from 5 to 2.5 gallons using BS. I ended up getting sick during the boil and spilled half gal to a gal on the laundry room floor. I am not sure what the heck happened but the beer ended up like 3.5% alcohol. This was on my old propane burner and is one reason I went all electric. I may try again but this time do a 5 gal batch.


Here is the thread I did on the Old Chub.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/index.php?threads/Where-did-I-go-wrong?.637901/

 

[jturman35]

If you want this beer to be really smooth, put it away for another 6 months. Darker beers and especially darker with high alcohol take time to mature. The stout I have in my fermenter will be bottled for at least a year before I open one but it is darker than your Scotch ale and the same alcohol.

I would if the alcohol was higher. It’s only 5.5% and not really dark for a Scotch Ale. Hell it almost looks like a dark brown ale. I’m going to try doing the Old Chub in the next month or two and store away for next year Oct/ Nov.

How would you age in a keg? Hit it with 30lbs for 24 hours then store in a closet at 70-75deg?

 

[RM-MN]

Think of a keg as an oversize bottle. Carb it, store it warm just like you suggest.

 

[jturman35]

Yes but can you store at low carb level? It takes two weeks to carb a keg at 12lbs CO2. I would like to hit the keg for 24 hours at 30psi to seal then move downstairs to age. I don’t have room in my keezer to carb is what I’m getting at.

 

[jturman35]

Ok, so I have been sampling this out of the keg since Jan 28th. Almost two months and it has gotten a little better. I’m thinking of bottling so I can free up a keg for a Red Ale. This beer is 5.5% will it get any better with age? I know bigger beers get better but what about a 5.5%??

 

[Northern_Brewer]

This beer is 5.5% will it get any better with age? I know bigger beers get better

It's not so much a question of ABV as a question of the balance of flavours. Very broadly, malt flavours get better with time whereas hop aromas get worse with time (and hop bitterness is kinda in the middle). So if you have a 7% beer that depends on hop aromas (like a NEIPA) then it will get worse with age, but a 7% beer that depends on malt flavours (like something Belgian) then it will get better with age - potentially for a couple of years depending on the beer.

Yours is kinda strong for a British beer, and I'd guess it would probably have reached its peak in bottle around 4-6 months after brewing if it had been bottled immediately. Generally I think US brewers tend not to fully condition their British-style beers enough. Obviously bottling from a 6-week-open keg is a whole different kettle of fish, but I guess there's no harm in trying, I might add some fresh yeast and a bit of conditioning sugar when bottling just to scavenge any oxygen from it.

 

[jturman35]

I’m thinking this would be good practice using my Blinchman beer gun. I have bottled several others from my keg but nothing that I’d like to age this long. I will probably just bottle 15 or so.

 

[RM-MN]

[QUOTE="jturman35, post: 8252661, member: 245555"]Ok, so I have been sampling this out of the keg since Jan 28th. Almost two months and it has gotten a little better. I’m thinking of bottling so I can free up a keg for a Red Ale. This beer is 5.5% will it get any better with age? I know bigger beers get better but what about a 5.5%??

View attachment 562583[/QUOTE]

Since you are sampling from the keg, I have to assume this keg is being kept cold, serving temperature, not maturing temperature. The cold temps slow down the maturing process and this type of beer will definitely improve with maturity. By all means, bottle this up, store it at room temp for another 2 months and sample again. I'm betting it will be much improved.

 

[jturman35]

You are correct sir! Keezer is constant 44 degrees. I am impatient as only have three taps. I just ordered two more kegs so I can age future beers at room temperature.