Scorched Element

CornyKegs 728
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Brewbien

Brewbien

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I found that an hour or so of a hot soak in PBW solution does the trick. Like 160F + is what you need. Leave the element mounted in the kettle or housing and let it do the heating. I understand that hot Oxyclean solution does a very similar job.
 
I would think oven cleaner would do it if hot oxyclean or PBW doesn't work. That's a pretty serious coating you have there!
 
It was a pretty big beer, it's happened once before with a beer with high wheat content. I probably started getting the wort up to temp with too high of a duty cycle. Works for smaller beers but probably have to adjust my process for wheat and high abv.
 
I don't know what your watt density is but I can dry fire my Camco ripple ULWD for few minutes to turn any organic buildup to light ash which then comes off very easily. YMMV
 
Hamaki said:
I don't know what your watt density is but I can dry fire my Camco ripple ULWD for few minutes to turn any organic buildup to light ash which then comes off very easily. YMMV
Click to expand...

Unless that element is only like 2000w it is NOT an ULWD but rather a LWD one. (hence the reason it scorched with a big beer in the first place...) dry firing that could cause it to fail very quickly...
 
Just went through that with exactly the same gear. RIMS tube element. Hot soak in PBW for two days, steel wool scrub down, another two days soak, and another scrub down - finally did it the trick. Still have stains on my hands.

It took more effort than I thought it would to clean that. Next tiime, since I have tc fittings on the boil kettle, i'll heat it up in there in a pbw solution. Might be quicker. Wasn't able to brew this weekend because of that not being clean. And yes, it was sad to dump that beer out...


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
 
I ruined three batches or beer myself due to a small area of scorching at the base of my first rims tube element... I hadnt pulled my rims apart to check the end since I was flushing it with pbw after brewing It was enough motivation for me to correct the issue and not have to worry about it again... Went with a 25" heating element with almost three times the surface area and a larger diameter rims tube without the narrow dead spot at the end to catch particulates..I also installed a camlock on the end to easily pull the element for cleaning (It actually has been clean after rinsing the system post brew each time)..
I really have to be ignoring things to have another scorched brew...
 
Decoy said:
Just went through that with exactly the same gear. RIMS tube element. Hot soak in PBW for two days, steel wool scrub down, another two days soak, and another scrub down - finally did it the trick. Still have stains on my hands.

It took more effort than I thought it would to clean that. Next tiime, since I have tc fittings on the boil kettle, i'll heat it up in there in a pbw solution. Might be quicker. Wasn't able to brew this weekend because of that not being clean. And yes, it was sad to dump that beer out...


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
Click to expand...

Decoy, what wattage was the element and what type of RIMS tube do you use?
 
Brewbien said:
I'm curious what makes you say that. Do you have some inside knowledge that camco is lying about their products?

This is the one I have had both times:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0002...ir=T1&redirect=true&ref_=nosim&tag=camco0e-20
Click to expand...
I stand corrected and im not sure why they can be marketed that way with such little surface area and high wattage but those are still a higher watt density than the ripple elements most use in boil kettles.
My foldback low watt density 4500w element in my HLT is slightly under 13inches of element length and its considered low watt density.the only difference is mine is not a lime life type surface....

There is conflicting info on how long your element is and I dont know if you have the 22 or 23 version but this site http://tools.dictio.us/see-more-cam...er-heater-element-ultra-low-watt-density.aspx and http://www.riamart.com/product/camco-02922-02923-4500w-240v-screw-in-lime-life-fo-3074105.html state that your element is 11.22in length? besides the lime life surface type I dont know why they would consider such a sort element a ULWD element and if thats the only reason I thing its false advertising most ulwd straight elements 4500w or higher are at least 17" in length like this one.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Camco-45...-Density-Water-Heater-Element-15184/204219986 whereas a regular low watt density one is around 12" in length..
http://www.amazon.com/Camco-Screw-In-Foldback-Heater-Element/dp/B0006JLVC6
The difference between a regular,low watt and ultra low watt density element is how many square inches of element surface area they have in relationship to how many watts they are... the ripple elements and very long foldback elements have more surface area (they are rippled so they still fit in a smaller diameter tank with the additional surface area) I do believe due to the limelife surface that many elements with a higher watt density are being sold as a ultra low watt density element because they behave like one with hard water in a hot water tank. and since camco sells them for use in a water tank and not with beer than they likely market them as ULWD because the new lime life surface behaves more like a regular element with more surface area as far as minerals go.

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25055 notice how long this element is if it where straight... it also has the "lime life" surface...

and you what do you mean both times? You bought the same element again after you already had a scorching problem with the same model element before? I thought this thread gave me dejavu.
 
What you're saying definitely makes sense and that really sucks if they are marketing the product incorrectly. The worst part is that I can't fit the ripple element in my kettle and my kettle diameter is 13.5" so I can't really fit a longer element either.

Hopefully this oven cleaner will work and I'll just have to be more cautious when brewing.

This happened to me once before with a wheat beer. I don't think I posted last time though, I just bought a new element.
 
The problem is I can't fit a ripple element in my kettle.

It's not the length, it's the ripple.
 
Brewbien said:
The problem is I can't fit a ripple element in my kettle.

It's not the length, it's the ripple.
Click to expand...
Ok I'm trying to understand what your saying but I am having difficulty,

Are there other things inside you kettle competing for the space? because as long as the inside of the kettle is at least 13" in diameter it would fit fine....I actually measured mine yesterday. unless you have other things like a hop spider taking up too much space ripple or no ripple it wouldnt matter?

EDIT**
UNLESS.... did you solder or weld a threaded nut or coupling directly to your pot near the bottom making it impossible to install the element without turning it 360 degrees?

in that case you can make your element work by installing an ssrv/potentiometer in tandem with you pid and you can limit the output of the element even when the pid has it at 100% giving you more range of control... there are lots of threads on this here.
or you can pick up a triclover adapter to install between you threaded kettle base and the element.
 
Use it to heat up PBW to 165-180 and let it stay hot for a while. This is like spring cleaning for us and I end up recirculating through the plate chiller to clean it at the same time.
 
Brewbien said:
Here is a picture.
View attachment 246969

Basically because of the length of the ferrule and size of the hole, you can't get the wavy element through the hole without straightening which I tried without luck. It felt like I was going to break it,
Click to expand...

I see now...you must be using the smaller 1.5" fitting because I know they fit with the 2" triclover openings.
 
I've had this happen to me. Soaking in CLR overnight and then a good scrubbing with a wire brush got most of it. Dremel with wire brush attachment knocked off the rest.
 
Snicklefritz said:
Ripple
Click to expand...

I wonder if the scorching can usually be linked super high OG or not using a hop spider or strainer bag of some sort... I have yet to brew anything over 1.071 yet myself but I have never had boil kettle scorching yet...I did experience it in my first rims tube setup due to a bad design I've since corrected.... Its not fun.
 
I've scorched a few elements a number of times. I have tried the pbw soak and scrub and soak and scrub and soak and scrub. It's a pita. I now use muriatic acid. You can find it at a hardware store. After soaking for a day in muriatic acid the scorching wipes off easily. I will then rinse the heck out of it and then clean with pbw and it's as good as new.

I have a 5500w LWD element in my RIMS tube and I only get scorching under 2 scenarios. First is if the recirculation stops from a pump failure or from compacting the grain bed too much. The other time I saw scorching was from rising out of a 120V protein rest where the protein coagulates and sticks to the element.
 
I'll have to try the muriatic acid. Had my first scorch re: rims tube batch before last. Matched both of crane's scenarios, though the kicker was low flow I'm sure. What's interesting was I only noticed a small wisp of smoke briefly at one point in the middle of the mash, and the wort and so-far-still-lagering resulting beer seems to taste just fine, but when I removed the element, it had quite a bit of caked-on black residue where before I'd only ever seen trace amounts of protein residue that wipes off immediately.
 
blizz81 said:
I'll have to try the muriatic acid. Had my first scorch re: rims tube batch before last. Matched both of crane's scenarios, though the kicker was low flow I'm sure. What's interesting was I only noticed a small wisp of smoke briefly at one point in the middle of the mash, and the wort and so-far-still-lagering resulting beer seems to taste just fine, but when I removed the element, it had quite a bit of caked-on black residue where before I'd only ever seen trace amounts of protein residue that wipes off immediately.
Click to expand...

yup mine did almost the same only I only had a 1 inch area at the base of my element that was scorched... 2 of the three beers tasted ok when kegging ironically but they were pretty bad when carbonated... the third which was a porter was undrinkable... I still have the keg waiting to be dumped. now that I went with an element with the same wattage but over twice as long and also a larger diameter rims tube with not tight dead space at the base of the element I have had no evidence of scorching or even any buildup on my element in 4 brews now..... I'm actually making a magic hat #9 style beer now while typing..
 
I encountered scorching one time when I paused a brew session for about an hour between the sparge and boil, I believe all the trub settled in the kettle and the scorching was the result of the heavy stagnant trub.
 
Brewbien said:
Here is a picture.
View attachment 246969

Basically because of the length of the ferrule and size of the hole, you can't get the wavy element through the hole without straightening which I tried without luck. It felt like I was going to break it,
Click to expand...

I'm wondering the same thing looks like some people can and some can't get it through the same ferule. I just posted this on another thread asking what element it is. Maybe different to yours?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/weldless-triclover-element-428247/index21.html
 
AussieBrewerInColorado said:
I'm wondering the same thing looks like some people can and some can't get it through the same ferule. I just posted this on another thread asking what element it is. Maybe different to yours?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/weldless-triclover-element-428247/index21.html
Click to expand...

It's been at least a year maybe two since i tried with the ripple element but i just remembered a detail that I left out. The problem was fitting it through the brewer's hardware element adapter, not the ferule. Pretty important detail, oops.

https://www.brewershardware.com/TC15F10NPSCOV.html
 
AussieBrewerInColorado said:
I'm wondering the same thing looks like some people can and some can't get it through the same ferule. I just posted this on another thread asking what element it is. Maybe different to yours?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/weldless-triclover-element-428247/index21.html
Click to expand...

These are not the same ferules. The weldless one Bobby_M is selling is much thinner than the welded one brewbien is using. Getting a wavy element through the ferule is a combination of diameter AND depth of the ferule. You wouldn't be able to get one through a 2" ferule if it was 6" deep. Same thing for a 1.5" ferule that's 2 or more inches deep.
 
crane said:
These are not the same ferules. The weldless one Bobby_M is selling is much thinner than the welded one brewbien is using. Getting a wavy element through the ferule is a combination of diameter AND depth of the ferule. You wouldn't be able to get one through a 2" ferule if it was 6" deep. Same thing for a 1.5" ferule that's 2 or more inches deep.
Click to expand...

This is what I was assuming as well.
 
crane said:
These are not the same ferules. The weldless one Bobby_M is selling is much thinner than the welded one brewbien is using. Getting a wavy element through the ferule is a combination of diameter AND depth of the ferule. You wouldn't be able to get one through a 2" ferule if it was 6" deep. Same thing for a 1.5" ferule that's 2 or more inches deep.
Click to expand...

right, obviously wouldn't go in brewbien's, but WILL go in Bobby's right?
 
I just went through this fiasco. Thankfully was with a cheap lager and not a expensive Belgian beer. Mash smelled horribly like smoke. Oven cleaner and a stiff wire brush took the carbon crud off in addition to a wire wheel thing attached to a drill. Interested in the muratic acid approach as that crossed my mind while cleaning. What was the dilution ratio?

I have a "pipe bomb" style RIMS and in order to make it easier to clean I ordered a 1 1/2" mpt to 2" triclover fitting from eBay and ordered one of Brewhardwares element enclosures with a triclover fitting. This should make it simple to remove the element for cleaning at the end of a brew day.
 
USAFSooner said:
I just went through this fiasco. Thankfully was with a cheap lager and not a expensive Belgian beer. Mash smelled horribly like smoke. Oven cleaner and a stiff wire brush took the carbon crud off in addition to a wire wheel thing attached to a drill. Interested in the muratic acid approach as that crossed my mind while cleaning. What was the dilution ratio?
Click to expand...

I used whatever is recommended on the bottle. I think it was something like 20 parts water to 1 part acid. When mixing add acid to water not water to acid.
 
crane said:
I used whatever is recommended on the bottle. I think it was something like 20 parts water to 1 part acid. When mixing add acid to water not water to acid.
Click to expand...


Wonder how well it would work to recirculate the acid mix through the RIMS at about 100-150F. I'm thinking at 1:20 ratio you wouldn't be too worried about the silicone hoses being affected.
 
USAFSooner said:
Wonder how well it would work to recirculate the acid mix through the RIMS at about 100-150F. I'm thinking at 1:20 ratio you wouldn't be too worried about the silicone hoses being affected.
Click to expand...

I can't think of any reason why you would want to do this other than to not have to dissasembled the rims tube, but you would have probably already done that to see that it's scorched. My rims tube is all tri clamp fittings so it's much easier to just place it in a bucket overnight.
 

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