Schwabenbraeu Das weizen yeast culture

[crysaeon]

So I have 2 bottles of this Schwabenbraeu Das Weizen Hefe Hell brought straight fresh from Stuttgart Germany. I was wanting to make a yeast culture from it but am concerned that they might use a different yeast for bottling making the sediment on the bottom useless for making a hefeweizen. Anyone know anything about their process on this? On a second note is there a way to build a yeast from the beer itself sans settlement?

 

[electrolight]

So if they use a bottling yeast they likely ran the beer through a filter which pulled the old yeast out. So harvesting the yeast may not work. But if you want you can send it to me just to be sure

 

[crysaeon]

I'm tempted to try it and smell it as it ferments. I can tell different yeasts by smell. My only issue is that if it is a lager yeast I have never used one before (not yet lagering.) I would guess I could still tell the difference though.

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[electrolight]

It's alot of extra work to kill off yeast just to repitch a generic yeast for bottling. I'd think that it's the same yeast they primary with.

 

[crysaeon]

After reading their web page in thinking they don't. I do know it's a common practice for commercial breweries in Germany to bottle this style with lager yeast. Something about the way it carbonates.

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[GuldTuborg]

I do know it's a common practice for commercial breweries in Germany to bottle this style with lager yeast. Something about the way it carbonates.

Really? That's surprising. Which breweries do this, do you know?

 

[slarkin712]

I believe some weizen brewers do filter the yeast. Typical weizen yeasts do not age well. They give off flavors when they sit in beer for too long. I don't know if they die or what, but it's probably one of the reasons that weizens should be drank young. At bottling the weizen yeast is filtered and new lager yeast is typically pitched with speise to carbonate the beer. I've read this somewhere. It's probably in the "Brewing With Wheat" book or the German Weiss book by Warner. I'll look it up tonight.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Yes, I'm aware many breweries reyeast at bottling time. I've always understood that the overwhelming majority use the same yeast used for the bulk of fermentation. I was surprised that someone had knowledge of the "common" practice of using different yeasts.

 

[Jayslay]

I believe some weizen brewers do filter the yeast. Typical weizen yeasts do not age well. They give off flavors when they sit in beer for too long. I don't know if they die or what, but it's probably one of the reasons that weizens should be drank young. At bottling the weizen yeast is filtered and new lager yeast is typically pitched with speise to carbonate the beer. I've read this somewhere. It's probably in the "Brewing With Wheat" book or the German Weiss book by Warner. I'll look it up tonight.

/\ This. If you have ever had an imported Weissbier that is past its date, and it tastes like stale mushrooms and hay... that's one that was bottled with the same Weizen strain. Lager strains give off cleaner flavors in much smaller amounts and so won't affect the weizen after a length of time in bottle 1-3 months, whereas if they kept the old yeast it would have staled.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Lager strains give off cleaner flavors in much smaller amounts

Even during bottle conditioning and storage conditions only?

For any breweries that do this, is the primary yeast filtered first? If so, how is the cloudy "yeast in suspension" attribute effected? That can't all be protein haze, can it? If not, there would still be a healthy mixture of the primary and lager yeasts in the bottle, no? And if the primary yeast "stales" quickly, as you're suggesting, wouldn't its presence here after not being filtered out also give the same flavors (if at reduced levels)?

I'm just trying to understand this. I can't say I've heard of such practice being widespread, nor of this particular "staling" of weizen strains.

 

[tagz]

Was just listening to Jamil talk about weizens being reyeasted with lager strain because they can be powdery and help with haze.

 

[electrolight]

Even during bottle conditioning and storage conditions only?

For any breweries that do this, is the primary yeast filtered first? If so, how is the cloudy "yeast in suspension" attribute effected? That can't all be protein haze, can it? If not, there would still be a healthy mixture of the primary and lager yeasts in the bottle, no? And if the primary yeast "stales" quickly, as you're suggesting, wouldn't its presence here after not being filtered out also give the same flavors (if at reduced levels)?

I'm just trying to understand this. I can't say I've heard of such practice being widespread, nor of this particular "staling" of weizen strains.

I'm curious as well. I've heard of weizen yeasts staling... I guess it's common knowledge. But how do they filter without loosing the traditional hazy look?

 

[slarkin712]

Here's some info I found from Eric Warner's "German Wheat Beer". On page 80: "Top fermenting yeast also tend to autolyze quicker than bottom fermenting yeast, and so affects the flavor stability of Weissbiers that are distributed over a large area or stored for long periods of time." There are a few pages regarding bottling weissbiers, but the gist of it is that filtering and conditioning with lager yeast aids in stability and clarity. The clarity doesn't really match with the modern perception of weissbier, but cloudy beer wasn't always a positive attribute of weissbiers. I couldn't find any good info on bottling in "Brewing with Wheat". I'll see if I can find a modern journal article or conference paper that mentions this and report back.