Sauerkraut Starter Gose

[tarmenel]

Thanks. will start in the next few weeks and see if I can get something up and running.

 

[burninator]

Great! I haven't set a brew date yet, but we should start getting warmer weather here over the next few weeks.

As for the grain bill, I'm going to keep it simple. I went 50:50 2-row:white wheat last time. That worked well, though I'm considering dialing back the wheat some, since I'm scaling up. I see no benefit to adding hops to this beer, so I'll continue to omit them.

 

[tarmenel]

I'm using BIAB and 50% wheat seems to always throw my efficiency somehow. I might do a 25:75 Wheatilsner. I think the pilsner is closer to the style. Might need to do more research on that.

 

[tarmenel]

Started a new thread to try recreate your results, it'll have your name https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=574103

Burning Goose

 

[GardenElf]

This has been a most interesting thread and I'm going to give this beer a try. What temperatures did You have, before and after pitching the yeast?

 

[burninator]

The 50:50 ratio is based on Dr. Lambic's gose, as a baseline. I talked to Josh Weaver, at Westbrooke, when I first started this, and he said they keep the wheat under 50%, but he didn't go into more detail than that. I'd think anywhere between 25% and 50% wheat is probably within the style, but in fairness, nothing else about this is to style, anyway, so I don't know that it matters.

For me, I like what wheat contributes to a recipe like this, so I keep the ratio high.

 

[tarmenel]

There was a post on Milk the Funk with some great details on a sauerkraut gose. Flipping between that and your post to dial my recipe in. He was taking off a little at a time to get a range of LAB

 

[burninator]

There was a post on Milk the Funk with some great details on a sauerkraut gose. Flipping between that and your post to dial my recipe in. He was taking off a little at a time to get a range of LAB

Did you bump that post? I remember seeing it. I've been much more haphazard with mine, just accepting whatever I get and improvising to make it work.

Will you be pulling multiple samples to pitch, or just use whatever culture you pull on the day you brew?

 

[tarmenel]

No just doing one pull. I'm also thinking about doing a no boil batch. I made a Berliner last week that I "accidentally" didn't boil and just pitched lacto and after a few days some sach. We'll see how that turn's out in a week.

 

[burninator]

If I recall correctly, I went with a short boil on the last batch. Brought it up to a boil, stirred in the salt, and then steeped the coriander before cooling.

That's the approach I'll take this time.

 

[burninator]

It begins...

I have a sudden opening to brew a week from this coming Sunday, so last night I put together my favorite type of sauerkraut. This one used two medium-sized heads of white cabbage, 1 peeled green apple, 2.5 tbsp of non-iodized sea salt, and caraway seeds...until it looked like there were enough caraway seeds.

I started by peeling off the outer leaves of the cabbage and cutting off the bottom of each head, which made it easier to quarter and core. The outer leaves were washed and set aside while I finely sliced the cabbage. In between each quarter, I would place the chopped leaves into a large mixing bowl, sprinkle on some salt, and massage the mixture for a minute, to bruise the leaves and disperse the salt.

When all my cabbage was chopped (by this time it was producing its own brine), I peeled, cored and chopped my apple, rolling it into the mixture. It's not absolutely critical that you peel the apple, but I've found that if you don't, the whole thing can take on a brown tint. The taste isn't affected, but it doesn't look as nice.

The last addition was a tbsp of caraway seeds, which didn't look like enough, so I added more. I love the taste and texture of caraway seeds in sauerkraut. Now I'm reading that caraway seed oil has an anti-fungal property, which might explain why my first batch of this beer, without caraway, fermented without really souring, and why the second batch, with caraway, soured without fermenting.

All of this was packed and pounded tightly into a 1 gallon crock. The outer leaves were placed on top, their thick spines jammed down the sides to hold everything in place. Then I used a plate to cover the whole thing, with a bowl on top, held down by a rubber band, to keep it all submerged. I'll check in on it in a couple of days and top off the brine, if necessary.

On April 10, I'll brew up a low gravity beer of 50/50 wheat/pilsner and pitch a few ounces of brine into the carboy. This will be the biggest batch of this beer I've made to date. My intention is to bottle a portion of it straight, a portion with dry hops, and a portion with fruit, probably raspberries. I'm even considering adding caraway to secondary for all or part of this beer.

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[burninator]

Brew day was Sunday.

Here are the details:

5 gallons
50/50 wheat/German pilsner
.45 oz sea salt
.5 ounces cracked coriander
Mashed at 148F for 60 minutes
O.G. 1.038-ish

Pitched 8 ounces of live culture from a young batch of sauerkraut. Recipe is in the post above.

This is my third time brewing like this and the first time I've scaled it up to a full batch.

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[burninator]

After 7 days in primary, fermentation never started, so it looks like I got a souring culture, without any yeast.

Tonight I pitched a melange of yeasts to get the job done. The last batch of this got US-05 as the finishing yeast, if I recall correctly. This one got a wild yeast strain that's similar to a saison, some nottingham from a stout I brewed a few months ago, and just a few drops of brett built up from a bottle of Orval.

 

[burninator]

It took 4 days, but on Thursday, the pellicle finally broke, after inflating like a balloon, and krausen broke through. Now, a week after pitching yeast, fermentation is going crazy, even though the krausen has completely fallen. I'm getting bubbles in the airlock at a rate of nearly two per second, and there's no foam at all on top of the beer.

The most positive development is that the airlock smells nice...bright and sweet. For a few days, there, I just had a musty smell coming from the carboy, and I was getting concerned. Next time, I'll account for the long lag time and pitch a few days earlier, if necessary.

 

[Cavestock]

A month out, any news on your batch, Burn?

 

[burninator]

Your timing is perfect. I sampled it a few nights ago. Just hadn't had a chance to post.

Current gravity: 1.05
Still a good bit of CO2 coming out of suspension, so I assume this will drop a little more.

My fears about getting it too sour were unfounded. It's very sour, mind you, but not offensively so. No butyric acid that I can detect. Just a good clean sourness.

In fact this beer is much cleaner than I expected. Pitching wild yeast, Notty, and Orval dregs, I was afraid it'd be a mess. It's actually less funky right now than previous batches. Of course that could very well change in the coming weeks.

I'm happy with this beer's progress. I'll check it again in a week and a half (2 weeks between samples) and, hopefully, determine a bottling schedule.

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[burninator]

I made the call over this past weekend that this beer is done. It hasn't decreased in gravity over the past two and a half weeks. The sourness is very bright, with plenty of support from the abundant coriander in the beer. It still has a surprisingly clean character, as well.

I split the batch last night into two buckets. Bucket 1 got 2.5 gallons of beer and an ounce of cascade pellets. Bucket 2, which also contains 2.5 gallons, will get a couple of pounds of raspberries tonight. Bucket 1 will be bottled this weekend, and the fruited portion will be left to ferment and age for a few more weeks.

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[actech]

gotta watch this

 

[burninator]

I bottled the dry hop portion of this beer last Saturday. The smell was amazing, though subtle. I'm used to using a heavy hand with my cascade, so it was interesting to smell and taste it in a restrained dosing.

I lost about a half gallon of the beer because I'm a knucklehead, and I didn't use a hop bag. Lesson learned.

I can't wait to bottle the fruited portion. Yesterday marked a week on raspberries. Around week six I hope to bottle and start drinking by late summer.

 

[czucker]

Hi Folks,
Just throwing my hat in the ring here.

I started a batch of saurkraut on Monday afternoon.

I am still trying to figure out my process. My initial thoughts are pulling some brine, creating a starter with some pilsen DME wort, sour worting in a purged corny keg until I hit a nice, tart pH, boil, and pitch, maybe 1056?

Any thoughts/recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Best,
Chris

 

[Cavestock]

So... my version is tart and strongly citrus in flavor -which I'm happy with. However, I'd like to bring 'balance to the force.'

Any recommended adjuncts to balance these flavors? I'm temped to just dry hop with whole leaf of something low in AA. But... I'm open to suggestions.

 

[burninator]

Hi Folks,
Just throwing my hat in the ring here.

I started a batch of saurkraut on Monday afternoon.

I am still trying to figure out my process. My initial thoughts are pulling some brine, creating a starter with some pilsen DME wort, sour worting in a purged corny keg until I hit a nice, tart pH, boil, and pitch, maybe 1056?

Any thoughts/recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Best,
Chris

Sounds like what some people are trying. My process has been to pitch the brine directly, then supplement with yeast, as needed. However, I maintain equipment for sours, and you may want to boil post-souring, if you keep one set of fermenters. Be aware, though, that you may get a yeast fermentation from your sauerkraut culture, in which case boiling would evaporate some alcohol.

So... my version is tart and strongly citrus in flavor -which I'm happy with. However, I'd like to bring 'balance to the force.'

Any recommended adjuncts to balance these flavors? I'm temped to just dry hop with whole leaf of something low in AA. But... I'm open to suggestions.

I used cascade on half of my last batch. I've only had a couple of barely carbed bottles, but I think it's working pretty well. I hope to bottle the raspberry half this weekend, and I'm really excited to taste it. I think the fruit should balance out the tart/citrus I also get from my current batch.

Aside: One thing I really like about this (and that most people probably wouldn't) is that every year this is a totally different beer, owing to the totally unique culture being employed each time.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Book Mark....

I'm getting ready to make my Red Baron Von Rottkrauttenstein. LOL

Using red cabbage, hallertauer and WB-06 or T-58.

(Edit)

I am going to make red kraut, wait at least 14 days to extract the krauto-bacillus. Then pitch that into my yogurt incubator with a 1.040 starter, which I think is about 1.5L. It will keep krauto-bacillus at 100F for about 3-4 days to sour my starter.

Then I will make 5 gallon wort (1.040) with red wheat and pilsner. Boil it just long enough to kill the any other bugs. Then chill to 120F and add it to a 5 gallon thermos, pitch my krauto-bacillus starter, let it go for a day or two. It should sour fast at 120-95F.

Then do another full boil, but include a steeping of carapils (dextrine malt) and little 20L crystal for some head retention. Boil about 20 minutes at 15 pitch hallertauer.

Once I have it chilled below 75F I will pitch WB-6 or T-58.

That's my plan...

I just need to focus on some good sour kraut for next week.

 

[Schlenkerla]

BTW - This is very close to how I did my Fage Brand Yogurt Sour - Berliner Weisse

I'm kegging Monday.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Started my Red Baron.... all 5 lbs of it....

 

[Schlenkerla]

The red cabbage

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[Schlenkerla]

Partial packing, pretty much half of a 5.6 lb head.

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[Schlenkerla]

Packed to the max....

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[burninator]

Started my Red Baron.... all 5 lbs of it....

Yes!! Looking forward to watching this progress.

I've started drinking my dry-hopped bottles of this, and it's coming along well. I'm still struck by the clean finish of the beer, given that it was a mixed fermentation. It's very light, and I'd consider it a refreshing summer beer.

I hope to bottle the raspberry portion this weekend.

 

[burninator]

I was finally able to get the raspberry half of this year's sauerkraut gose into bottles this past Saturday. My whole kitchen smelled like somebody had spread warm raspberry jam onto a slice of freshly baked bread. The beer is surprisingly clear, at this early stage, but it should be, considering it took me half an hour to siphon 2.5 gallons of it through a hop bag, into my bottling bucket. The raspberry, at over a pound per gallon comes through very clearly without overwhelming the character of the base beer, in my opinion.

I'm very very excited to try this one in a couple of weeks. I drank a bottle of the dry hopped gose during bottling. That one, with a bit of carbonation, is sharply sour (in a good way), and it has a decent amount of hop character, though next time I might try a continental variety, like saaz or hallertau.

I saved most of these, now yellow, raspberries, and racked 3 gallons of table beer onto them, with 2 lbs of plums.