Sanke Fermenter Prototypes

[Photopilot]

I really like that design. I have been playing with insimin8er's cheap o design this week to crazy something to set serve this function. At a $40 price point I would buy two of these today. Let me know when they are available.

 

[pickles]

If it'd been available a year ago I would have purchased on. I certainly have more than $40 in parts and labor. There's definitely a market for it.

I don't have any issues cleaning it. I have a DIY keg washer but I know others just do a oxiclean or PBW soak.


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[jimyson]

Yet another great thread. Thanks for all of the ideas and another project on the plate.

 

[maierhof]

I cannot afford a connical right now and have a spare sanke. I am going to adopt Mr Pickles design. Have you had any problems with cleaning the keg after fermentation?

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Just clean it like a carboy... I have one of these. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/keg-carboy-washer-158415/
I set it for two hours and walk away. When I return it is hot and clean.
If end up with gunk left over after that I will buy a rotating ball...

 

[maierhof]

I've been prototyping and experimenting with APRV? Adjustable Pressure Relief Valves built with off the shelf parts. The cheapest junk versions you'll find on Amazon and Mcmaster for around $5 use a circular seat and ball bearing valve. They leak in most of the adjustable range. It's good for not blowing up a compressor tank, but not for something we want to hold pressure indefinitely. The one with the big plastic knob for $13 is much better at holding pressure because the valve has an oring. I've tested using PTFE and MDPE balls for in tapered seats like flare fittings have and that doesn't work at all.

As much as I really do love stainless anything, it's probably not worth the R&D cost when the brass one that works is $13 because it won't touch your beer.

I had a discussion yesterday with someone knowledgeable from MoreBeer and it turns out that their APRV is tuned to hold 4 psi BUT they make a 10psi and a 20psi spring for these things! I ordered two of the 20psi psrts and we will see what happens... crossing fingers

 

[pickles]

I wondered if I had already seen a system like this a long time ago that I subconsciously forgot about because I would have sworn I was just looking at the 2" bottom drain adapters and thought, aha... sanke fermenter. So many pioneers running around in this hobby that it's really hard to be original even when you think you are. Hmm, just to make them really cheap now..

I've been prototyping and experimenting with APRV? Adjustable Pressure Relief Valves built with off the shelf parts. The cheapest junk versions you'll find on Amazon and Mcmaster for around $5 use a circular seat and ball bearing valve. They leak in most of the adjustable range. It's good for not blowing up a compressor tank, but not for something we want to hold pressure indefinitely. The one with the big plastic knob for $13 is much better at holding pressure because the valve has an oring. I've tested using PTFE and MDPE balls for in tapered seats like flare fittings have and that doesn't work at all.

As much as I really do love stainless anything, it's probably not worth the R&D cost when the brass one that works is $13 because it won't touch your beer.

how about something like this in lieu of the ball?

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/universal-poppet-valve.html

 

[maierhof]

how about something like this in lieu of the ball?

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/universal-poppet-valve.html

That poppit on the left in the pic is exactly what is in the end of the stainless aprv from morebeer with a different spring.

 

[jimyson]

Just ordered mine today! Thanks Bobby.

For those that didn't know, http://www.brewhardware.com/conversionkits/197-sankefermenter

 

[maierhof]

Just ordered mine today! Thanks Bobby.

For those that didn't know, http://www.brewhardware.com/conversionkits/197-sankefermenter

Nicely Done Bobby!
Not a bad price from go too...

If you decide to go with the cross and a 1/2" compresssion fitting to install the adjustable racking cane remember to buy the "full port" version which is bored all the way through so the cane can go in.

I thought you might have these by now but I just checked. Sorry for posting this but:
http://www.stainlessbrewing.com/SS-Comp-x-MPT-Bore-Through_p_56.html

 

[Bobby_M]

Sure, mine are bore-thru as well. I just realized the page didn't say anything about it so I just added a note:

http://brewhardware.com/fittings-75/103-tubecompression

 

[Spellman]

I am always fascinated by the innovations that Bobby comes up with. Most of you know similar products have been done before, but I think there are probably even more ideas waiting to be "tapped." I'm not sure there is enough room on the TC plate, but if you were to put a few of these on there: http://www.chicompany.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=376_1_3_260&products_id=3276, I could see people interested in an easy way to convert to ball lock without using a tall sanke coupler + expensive fittings and such. Obviously you would need to find room for a prv as well. You could maybe even use that setup as the racking cane and blow off by hooking up ball lock disconnects to it, then hooking up co2 to transfer. The idea isn't necessarily fleshed out to its entirety with benefits/pitfalls, but thought I might throw it out there. There are a lot of creative people here and someone might be able to build upon it.

 

[Photopilot]

I'm not sure there is enough room on the TC plate, but if you were to put a few of these on there: http://www.chicompany.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=376_1_3_260&products_id=3276, I could see people interested in an easy way to convert to ball lock without using a tall sanke coupler + expensive fittings and such. Obviously you would need to find room for a prv as well.

The beauty of this setup is you don't need to add a thing to the TC. By adding a T-Fitting cross to the male thread of this cap, you have the option to add 2-3 different fittings on to this unit. The same unit could be used to make a pressure fermenter vessel and then be used to debe beer from a sanke, without the need of a sanke coupler.

 

[maierhof]

Sure, mine are bore-thru as well. I just realized the page didn't say anything about it so I just added a note:

http://brewhardware.com/fittings-75/103-tubecompression

Excellent news -I was wondering why you didnt have those... Gald I could help.

 

[maierhof]

The beauty of this setup is you don't need to add a thing to the TC. By adding a T-Fitting cross to the male thread of this cap, you have the option to add 2-3 different fittings on to this unit. The same unit could be used to make a pressure fermenter vessel and then be used to debe beer from a sanke, without the need of a sanke coupler.

Bingo - that is what makes it such a great piece. The flexibility.
The only problem with it so far is that you have to watch and test many more areas for pressure leaks... patience and water testing are necessary here.

 

[Spellman]

I do agree that this is a very flexible setup, but by the time you get all the extra fittings and parts, it isn't much of a savings compared to the competing product, and is a much bulkier design. With that said, I do see some very compelling qualities. Any idea if you were to attach the cross/tee fitting using a camlock, the cane would still be able to fit freely? I would personally rather not have it connected at all times if you could just swap out the blow off and pop the assembly on in a matter of seconds. This would also mean you could have one racking attachment for use of multiple fermenters. This would really peek my interest as the price per fermenter would go down considerably if you didn't have redundant equipment. It also makes it less tall which is another big bonus.

And before anyone points it out, yes I realize the weld in corny post idea wouldn't be that cheap in the end once you factor in everything needed, but I thought maybe someone else would be inspired with other uses and setups.

I'm trying to rationalize going this route over my current setup of the rubber carboy caps, but it might be a little while before I decide to appropriate money for this upgrade. My want list has a waiting list!

 

[grathan]

Is there enough room on the cap to drill a hole for corny style pressure safety?

I'd love to be able to put a ball valve on the threaded part and still have a diptube. I wonder if there is room for welded liquid corny post as well?




Or perhaps there is a good way to cap off a racking cane for pressure ferment?

 

[pickles]

Is there enough room on the cap to drill a hole for corny style pressure safety?

I'd love to be able to put a ball valve on the threaded part and still have a diptube. I wonder if there is room for welded liquid corny post as well?




Or perhaps there is a good way to cap off a racking cane for pressure ferment?

you just need to add a threaded tee or cross to add more flexibility and options.

 

[grathan]

I could add the pressure relief that way.

I guess my main concern is with pressure fermenting. I would like to leave the diptube in while fermenting to %100 avoid air exposure. If it doesn't hold (let's say it accidentally creeps to 70 psi ) I don't want the diptube to leak and allow the whole keg (12 gallons) to squirt out through the diptube onto the floor.

I like the looks of the way Maierhof did it (post #9), but would just like to hear If Bobby had any kit plans for welded corny posts.

I don't know the psi rating of compression fittings. Swagelok seems to mention 15000 psi which seems high to me. And what if I constantly loosen and re-tighten the fitting to adjust dip tube length to accommodate trub level or use keg for serving?

 

[pickles]

Well you need to replace the compression ferrule with o-rings in order for the dip tube to remain adjustable. The o-rings won't hold a ton of pressure, I've had mine up to 20 psi with no issues.

 

[grathan]

Which only makes the the corny post more attractive. And replacement tube is easily obtained and one could have a couple different lengths for either serving or fermenting.

 

[WortMonger]

Awesome stuff there BobbyM. I'm awaiting my garage to be cleaned to reach my equipment and start brewing again. It's been awhile now but, I'm going to precision machining school and making gadgets is all I've been thinking about while attending. Great work! I can't believe keg fermenting has grown the way it has and my little thread is still going as well. I love this forum and how ideas expand into things like this. Keep it up guys, and BobbyM... you fricken rock dude.


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[jimyson]

Thanks to Bobby and Wortmomger I am pretty close to finishing my closed pressure fermentation using a Sanke. Need to order a SS ball valve and put my liquid corny post on it and it's complete. Thanks to both of you!




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[grathan]

Is that one of the new caps? Looks like it's pretty crowded on top already... Might have to weld one with 3/8 threads instead to make room for a corny post.

 

[srice]

Thanks to Bobby and Wortmomger I am pretty close to finishing my closed pressure fermentation using a Sanke. Need to order a SS ball valve and put my liquid corny post on it and it's complete. Thanks to both of you!

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What size (OD) is that racking cane and are you going to just use a 1/2" MPT to corny post thread adapter to a liquid post on the output of the valve?

 

[jimyson]

3/8" (I had a couple in stock here) and yes, I still need to change the brass ball valve to a SS for consistency and do the same thing that I did with the gas QD.

 

[haeffnkr]

Hello All,

I have been pressure fermenting in Sankes for a while now.
I have been using the sanke spear and couplers and even though I believe I have all the hardware clean I am still getting some funkiness/infections in some of my beer and want to try one of these sanke kits to simplify the hardware and make sure there are no nasties hiding in the spear/coupler/etc.

So... with all the gas and liquid side hardware hanging off some of these very cool setups, how do you clean these once the beer is transferred into serving kegs?
You have to pull all the gas side fittings off and dis assemble it all after every ferment or?

Edit -
I guess after looking at this again... assuming ample headspace in the keg, the only thing touching the beer is the racking cane and the thermowell.... so a quick cleaning and spritz with starsan on the outside and a line brush/pbw blast with pressure and starsan on the inside of the racking cane and it should be clean?
Do you all use clean these in place with the keg and use the keg cleaning solution also?

thanks Kevin

 

[grathan]

I'm still learning to tig weld so I haven't pressure fermented yet. Though I would wash everything. The vapor leaving the fermentation vent is bound to have some degree of wort attached.

My plan to clean once ready would be
1.) 2-3 day oxiclean soak, this would be filling the keg right to the brim and also submerging the other parts, except the pressure gauge and pressure valve, perhaps these can be lightly misted with star san spray bottle?
2. rinse everything out and then cip recirc a fresh batch of heated oxy-clean using a keg wash style pump for an hour. flush with water, then flush with star san.

Maybe get a mirror and flashlight to do an inspection the first couple times cleaning.

 

[haeffnkr]

I am thinking about using a tee with a compression/racking cane and the middle tee port would have a cam lock male fitting with this sanke setup.
With a barbed female camlock fitting I would have a gas side hose and my spunding valve.

For cleaning -
Pull off the camlock and gas side then soak/spray/wash it all up, sanitize and ready for the next batch.

thoughts?

thanks Kevin

 

[rekoob]

Awesome thread. Thanks to all for the never ending ideas and things to make/get.

 

[30Bones]

I really wish I had kept one of my old 1/2 barrel kegs as I am now doing more and more 10 gallon batches and this would be a nice space saver on top of being super trick!