My brother-in-law makes 5 gallon batches of extract beer. His last 3 came out sour. He's a doctor so he knows cleanliness and sanitizes using Star-san. The one thing he doesn't do, that I always do, is leave a lid on the pan of bottling sugar after he boils it while it cools off. Anyone think this could be the problem?
Sanitizing bottling sugar
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Bensiff
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Leaving the lid off while it cools? Yes, that can invite unwanted critters to the party. I personally don't let it cool too much when I bottle. I get the siphon going and then slowly pour in the sugar water. Yeah its still hot but if you go slowly its not going to heat the beer up enough to result in any damage.
Leaving the lid off while something is cooling would provide the OPPORTUNITY for a contaminant to get in, but it does seem like the odds would definitely be against you if all 3 times you got an infection. Unless the spot where he boils his bottling sugar is an area ripe with all kinds of bacteria floating around (like a mildewy kitchen?).
Were all 3 recipes exactly the same, same yeast each time?
Was the yeast something bought commercially (Wyeast, White Labs) or was it something harvested and re-used?
What about the bottle cleaning & sterilization routine (assuming the sour is coming from bottles, not a keg)?
Has he double-checked his ratio of sterilizer to water to make sure he didn't mix something up too potent and it's leaving behind residual sanitizer?
Were all 3 recipes exactly the same, same yeast each time?
Was the yeast something bought commercially (Wyeast, White Labs) or was it something harvested and re-used?
What about the bottle cleaning & sterilization routine (assuming the sour is coming from bottles, not a keg)?
Has he double-checked his ratio of sterilizer to water to make sure he didn't mix something up too potent and it's leaving behind residual sanitizer?
He tells me he is spot on with the bottle sterilization. His kitchen is clean, believe me. He uses the yeast he gets when he buys his kit. They were all different beers. I haven't been there when he's made it or bottled it. He lives around Seattle though, nice and damp.
It could be the problem. I just throw the sugar solution in hot and siphon the beer over it to ensure good mixing. Since you have about 40x more flat beer than boiling sugar water this doesn't really affect the temperature or the yeast at all.
I've always let mine cool off, just part of my process. Good to know. None of the books I have really spell it out.
Highly unlikely this is the source of infection. It's way down the list of likely weak links in sanitation and cleaning.
When I bottle batches I boil the sugar soln. Simmer for 1 minute and chuck it in the bottling bucket prior to racking the beer on top immediately. The room temp bottling bucket will cool it and the cold beer/cider coming next will do the rest in seconds. Simple, effective and time efficient
I think the open pan is only a slight infection risk, but he could cover it with a piece of sanitized foil to protect the solution while cooling.
I would look into the equipment used for racking and the bottling bucket & spigot. Those are more likely to harbor bugs if not properly sanitized. And replace plastic tubing from time to time.
I would look into the equipment used for racking and the bottling bucket & spigot. Those are more likely to harbor bugs if not properly sanitized. And replace plastic tubing from time to time.
evchenko
Well-Known Member
Make sure he tastes the sugar before he puts in, I've heard of someone accidentally putting citric acid into the bottling bucket instead of corn sugar 
I agree w/ the above; possible but not the likeliest culprit, esp. three times in a row. However, keeping the lid on makes sense. No need to invite infection even if from an unlikely source.
I'd put my money on "something isn't clean that he thinks is clean."
What does he clean with? Does he have scratches in plastic equipment that he can't get clean?
I think he uses PBW. I use oxyclean myself, always have, never had a problem, and my fermenter is a big mouth German ferm tank. Still have the same bottling bucket I've used for 5 years.
Thanks for all the tips everyone, I'll pass this on.
slym2none
"Lazy extract brewer."
I bottle-prime with granulated sugar. Sure, I sanitize the measuring spoon & small funnel ahead of time, but the sugar comes right out of the bag into a smaller bowl.
I guess something could happen, but this way (if it is the sugar), I won't ruin the whole batch.
I guess something could happen, but this way (if it is the sugar), I won't ruin the whole batch.
TheHopfather
Well-Known Member
I'd look at the bottles personally. I had a few batches go bad on me, ended up being bottles I thought were clean that were not clean. I ended up doing a 5 day PBW soak on all of my bottles and the problem went away. Even though the bottles looked perfectly clean with a visual inspection all kinds of oily stuff ended up coming out of them in PBW.
3 times in a row is no coincidence. Obviously he's forgetting something that's not clean and/or sanitized. I'd say odds are 0.1% for the priming solution, 99.9% something else.
How about the spigot in the bottling bucket? That bugger MUST be pulled apart, thoroughly cleaned and sanitized. Same for the rubber o-rings/washers. There are two 3/4" barrels in that spigot that rotate into one another, so you can turn the little (red) tap horizontally. Soak that spigot in some really hot water then push the 2 white barrels apart. I've found lots of slimy black mold/residue in there.
How about the spigot in the bottling bucket? That bugger MUST be pulled apart, thoroughly cleaned and sanitized. Same for the rubber o-rings/washers. There are two 3/4" barrels in that spigot that rotate into one another, so you can turn the little (red) tap horizontally. Soak that spigot in some really hot water then push the 2 white barrels apart. I've found lots of slimy black mold/residue in there.
I rarely take my spigot apart. Run oxy and soap through it from the bucket and rinse, and run star-san thru before bottling. I'll mention this to him also, but he's pretty meticulous, working in an operating room every day.
It's the narrow space, a few microns, between the 2 hollow white/translucent barrels.
Could well be the bottles, as @TheHopfather pointed out. Someone here relied on the dishwasher to clean the inside of bottles. Now that's a dreamer. He ended up with many infected bottles, but not all.
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