Sample tastes great; beer tastes awful

[LovesIPA]

Something is going on and it's EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING. My batches taste great when I taste them after doing the FG sample. After sitting in the keg for a few days carbonating, the beer completely changes its flavor. This has happened to the last 3-4 batches.

My last batches have been:

- Stone 15th Anniversary Escondidian clone
- Lagunitas lil sumpin clone
- IPA recipe I cobbled together

All three of these beers tasted great right out of the fermentor. I couldn't WAIT until they were carb'd and ready to drink. After a week of sitting in the keg, the beers are totally different. No hop flavor. No bitterness at all, just a cloyingly sweet, overly malty beer. They are all gross now and I don't even want to drink them.

I cannot figure out what's going on. I've made almost 30 batches and this is something new.

My cleaning and sanitation is really good. I break down the keg completely, soak everything in oxiclean, re-assemble the keg, put some sanitizer in it (I use star-san), shake and dump it, purge the keg with CO2, and then fill it with beer. My racking cane is clean and sanitized.

Somewhere between racking it out of the fermentor and serving it out of the tap, something is completely changing the flavor of the beer. Could it be the beer lines? I cleaned them a month or two ago and I have a new set of lines on the way.

 

[DocScott]

I was going to suggest your lines until you said the beer tastes too sweet/malty. That, to me, implies recipe or process. I cant think of anything during kegging that would kill the hop flavor and add sweetness to the batch. (Unless you are priming your kegs and tasting too soon, but it sounds like you are force carbing). What have your FG been in the last batches?
Hmmm....weird.

 

[LovesIPA]

FG on the last batch was 1.009.

I ripped all the lines out, and I'm in the process of cleaning and sanitizing everything.

I also took a sample from the keg that I just tapped last Friday. It doesn't taste like the sample taken at kegging time either.

This just doesn't make any sense to me. It's cost me three batches so far. I have two more in the fermentor that I have no idea what to do with until I figure this out.

 

[ong]

Have you replaced your o-rings? I had a keg where the o-ring was so saturated with soda pop, it was giving my beers a weirdly sweet flavor. Couldn't place it for a few batches, and finally realized: Sprite.

 

[LovesIPA]

I replaced all the rubber parts when I bought the kegs. Plus this has happened on three different kegs now.

 

[JonM]

Are you putting the beers on gas, waiting a week, then tasting?

Usually my beers are nowhere near ready at one week and they need three or more weeks to start tasting right.

 

[LovesIPA]

Are you putting the beers on gas, waiting a week, then tasting?

Usually my beers are nowhere near ready at one week and they need three or more weeks to start tasting right.

They need time to start tasting right, yes. But they don't go from tasting (at kegging time) like they need to sit in the keg for a couple weeks on gas to tasting awful, right?

The first batch this happened to, the Black IPA, tasted the same right up until the keg kicked. Which was a long time, because I wasn't drinking it real fast.

They taste oxidized to me. I am super careful about oxidation. I purge the keg with CO2 and use a racking cane.

And now that I think about it, I put a new CO2 tank on it about a month ago. Could I have a CO2 tank that's got some air in it? I don't know much about CO2 filling, but is that possible?

 

[LovesIPA]

I cleaned and ran sanitizer through all the lines, faucets, and shanks.

The beer still doesn't taste good.

I stuck a BBQ lighter into one of the kegs (the one I just ran sanitizer through the lines with) and the flame consistently extinguished once it crossed the brim of the keg. There's no air in that canister.

I'm stumped.

 

[JonM]

What exactly is the bad flavor? Just weak hop flavor and sweetness?

I kegged a big old IPA about a month ago. When it first went in, it was very weak and blah. Now it's awesome. I'd say just give it more time.

 

[BigFloyd]

Are you putting the beers on gas, waiting a week, then tasting?

Usually my beers are nowhere near ready at one week and they need three or more weeks to start tasting right.

This^^^^^^.

Sure, I'll sample one at a week, but I realize that it's not going to be really right at that point.

 

[Homercidal]

Did you happen to have a refill on your CO2 gas recently?

 

[Yooper]

One thing that I can think of is how you're carbonating. I've noticed that "burst carbing", giving the keg blasts of c02 and shaking and purging, really makes the hops aroma dissipate fast. I think the purging must "blow off" much of the hops aroma and flavor very quickly.

That's the only thing I can think of.

 

[LovesIPA]

This^^^^^^.

Sure, I'll sample one at a week, but I realize that it's not going to be really right at that point.

I totally understand that, but I've had a string of batches that taste radically different after kegging them. It's not just a green flavor.

Did you happen to have a refill on your CO2 gas recently?

Yes I did. I'm really starting to think that something other than CO2 is in this tank, or at least it's contaminated somehow. It's the only change I made that correlates with this off-flavor showing up.

One thing that I can think of is how you're carbonating. I've noticed that "burst carbing", giving the keg blasts of c02 and shaking and purging, really makes the hops aroma dissipate fast. I think the purging must "blow off" much of the hops aroma and flavor very quickly.

That's the only thing I can think of.

I don't shake at all. I set the regulator to 20 or 25 psi for a day or two then bring it down to 10 psi. It's usually carbonated well enough after a few days. I realize this isn't quite as good as setting it at 12 psi for three weeks and then drinking it, but I can't possibly see how carbing this way would ruin the beer.

 

[kombat]

I'm really starting to think that something other than CO2 is in this tank

That's my suspicion too.

If it tastes fine before you add gas, but weird after you add gas, then logically, it's the gas.

Do you have a friend from whom you could borrow a CO2 tank to carb the next batch and see if it resolves the issue?

 

[JuiceyJay]

What's your recipe/processes?
How long does it ferment for and how long does it age in the leg?

 

[LovesIPA]

That's my suspicion too.

If it tastes fine before you add gas, but weird after you add gas, then logically, it's the gas.

Do you have a friend from whom you could borrow a CO2 tank to carb the next batch and see if it resolves the issue?

I don't. But for $15 I'll just get it replaced today.

What's your recipe/processes?
How long does it ferment for and how long does it age in the leg?

All grain 5 gallon batches. Recipes are mostly hoppy ales. Can you be more specific on recipe/process questions?

It ferments for a minimum of three weeks in the bucket and at least a week in the keg.

Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[DocScott]

I've been thinking about this for the past day, and I can't come up with anything else. I think getting a new CO2 tank is a great suggestion. Would be a shame if the gas supplier switched your cylinder and ruined 3 beers on you, but at least its an easy fix! Let us know what happens!

 

[bxtzd3]

i would not go back to the same place until after you get a new fill of gas. it that was the issue i would take a before and after sample and bring it to him for a refund and some type of reimbursement for the ruined beer. i mean mistakes do happen but you should get something out of it.

 

[grathan]

Could it just be sediment?

 

[LovesIPA]

i would not go back to the same place until after you get a new fill of gas. it that was the issue i would take a before and after sample and bring it to him for a refund and some type of reimbursement for the ruined beer. i mean mistakes do happen but you should get something out of it.

Somehow I think that the effort involved in getting a welding shop to reimburse me for a handful of batches of beer they may or may not have ruined is going to be a pretty steep uphill fight. I'm not sure it's worth it.

Could it just be sediment?

Not a chance.

 

[bxtzd3]

Somehow I think that the effort involved in getting a welding shop to reimburse me for a handful of batches of beer they may or may not have ruined is going to be a pretty steep uphill fight. I'm not sure it's worth it.



Not a chance.

ya not so much. did realize it was a welding shop.

 

[LovesIPA]

I took the cylinder back to the first welding shop today - not the one I got it from. I asked him about filling them and what the chances are of putting the wrong gas in it or some other kind of contamination. I figured I'd get a more honest answer that way. He said that putting the wrong gas altogether in it is pretty much impossible because the CO2 fitting is unique. However, contamination is a real possibility.

Apparently they do a lot of business with brewers and winemakers and it's not uncommon for a cylinder to be returned with some beer or wine in it. He said he had a cylinder come back once with three gallons of wine in it. He cracked open the cylinder I was returning and smelled the gas coming out of it and it definitely had an odor to it.

So diagnosis confirmed. One contaminated CO2 cylinder ruined four batches of beer (forgot about one).

This one smells like nothing so no more contamination. Chalk one up to experience.

 

[grathan]

Nice, glad you were able to figure it out. I've always wondered how possible it would be to have oxygen in the cylinders and how much is typical.

 

[DocScott]

Thanks for letting us know. I thought from the beginning something was strange about your situation. Time to brew up some hoppy goodness to replace the lost batches!

 

[LovesIPA]

Got a batch going right now!

 

[RightHandBrewer]

I was wondering if you had any more issues after switching tanks. I've been having a similar problem and I think I've narrowed it down to the regulator or the gas.

 

[LovesIPA]

Other than a persistent infection problem, I haven't had any other issues. I think the CO2 tank was definitely contaminated.

 

[RightHandBrewer]

I'm starting to lean that way. Though I'm on the second tank from the same supplier. Do you keep your Co2 inside of a fridge by chance? I'm wondering if that has something to do with it - my fridge will sometimes freeze in certain areas.

 

[LovesIPA]

Yes it's in the fridge but it makes no difference.

 

[m3n00b]

Wow that is so weird. Glad you figured it out.

 

[ChristaJ]

I took the cylinder back to the first welding shop today - not the one I got it from. I asked him about filling them and what the chances are of putting the wrong gas in it or some other kind of contamination. I figured I'd get a more honest answer that way. He said that putting the wrong gas altogether in it is pretty much impossible because the CO2 fitting is unique. However, contamination is a real possibility.

Apparently they do a lot of business with brewers and winemakers and it's not uncommon for a cylinder to be returned with some beer or wine in it. He said he had a cylinder come back once with three gallons of wine in it. He cracked open the cylinder I was returning and smelled the gas coming out of it and it definitely had an odor to it.

So diagnosis confirmed. One contaminated CO2 cylinder ruined four batches of beer (forgot about one).

This one smells like nothing so no more contamination. Chalk one up to experience.

Hey LovesIPA, I know this in an old post but we are having what sounds like an almost identical problem. Several batches ruined, tastes good out of the carboy, then tastes sweet a few days later out of the keg. So I'm curious - did getting the new cylinder completely resolve your problem long term?

Thanks!

 

[cannman]

racking hose... I'm so paranoid, its cheap enough to replace every time...

 

[LovesIPA]

Hey LovesIPA, I know this in an old post but we are having what sounds like an almost identical problem. Several batches ruined, tastes good out of the carboy, then tastes sweet a few days later out of the keg. So I'm curious - did getting the new cylinder completely resolve your problem long term?

Thanks!

I did finally figure out the problem I was having.

Here's the post I made about it and the solution: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/efficiency-too-high-464223/index3.html#post6310615