Sam Adams Long Shot

[peggjam]

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?t=40877

Joining forums to gripe about the SA contest? Care to elaborate why?

Because I think it's a screw deal.....is that answer enough for you? I also think Exxon/Mobile posting a 32 billion profit is also a screw deal...considering it's just my oppinion, and I have the right to express it who are you to question why?

 

[brewt00l]

Because I think it's a screw deal.....is that answer enough for you? I also think Exxon/Mobile posting a 32 billion profit is also a screw deal...considering it's just my oppinion, and I have the right to express it who are you to question why?

I would happen to be a person who has the right to question why and what your motivation happens to be as much as you have the right to express your opinion.

On the topic of the contest, the rules are very similar if not identical to many other submit your song/recipe/design/whatever creative product contest. IMHO as long as the participants are aware of the rules and what they are agreeing to by participating, it is their choice...no one is forced to participate and assign these rights with out choice.

 

[Fiery Sword]

I'm going to submit a greasy beer with a clover logo and high ABV% and have them market it to Italian/Irish mutts.

 

[peggjam]

"On the topic of the contest, the rules are very similar if not identical to many other submit your song/recipe/design/whatever creative product contest. IMHO as long as the participants are aware of the rules and what they are agreeing to by participating, it is their choice...no one is forced to participate and assign these rights with out choice."

I'm just not sure they understand what they are agreeing to. I see alot of comments about how great the contest is, but nothing about what you are actually agreeing too...so I thought a little clearification and conversation would help everybody understand that this may not be as good as it sounds.

 

[brewt00l]

"On the topic of the contest, the rules are very similar if not identical to many other submit your song/recipe/design/whatever creative product contest. IMHO as long as the participants are aware of the rules and what they are agreeing to by participating, it is their choice...no one is forced to participate and assign these rights with out choice."

I'm just not sure they understand what they are agreeing to. I see alot of comments about how great the contest is, but nothing about what you are actually agreeing too...so I thought a little clearification and conversation would help everybody understand that this may not be as good as it sounds.

I have not seen the entrance paperwork but I do know that if SA attempted to slip this past folks without their understanding, they wouldn't have much defense legally. I have seen the entrance paperwork for other contests and it's pretty clear when you enter.

edit: it is pretty clearly spelled out right in the rules on the longshot site.
http://www.samueladams.com/promotions/LongShot/rules.aspx

 

[the_bird]

I've never heard of anyone in the homebrewing community not understanding what it is they are agreeing to....

So, if your recipe is kick-ass enough where you KNOW it's your ticket to the high life (so to speak), forget the contest, start up a micro, and sell me some. If you're right, great! What I think you'll find, though, is that the specific recipe is a relatively minor factor in whether your venture is profitable or not; there's a reason that so many microbrewers are so open about their recipes with the homebrew community.

 

[ayrton]

"On the topic of the contest, the rules are very similar if not identical to many other submit your song/recipe/design/whatever creative product contest. IMHO as long as the participants are aware of the rules and what they are agreeing to by participating, it is their choice...no one is forced to participate and assign these rights with out choice."

I'm just not sure they understand what they are agreeing to. I see alot of comments about how great the contest is, but nothing about what you are actually agreeing too...so I thought a little clearification and conversation would help everybody understand that this may not be as good as it sounds.

Let's consider two scenarios: I enter and win, and I do not enter and clearly do not win.

By entering, you're already "signed on the dotted line," so there's no holding out on your recipe. You're legally bound to surrender it.

If I win, then I get $5000. Hooray. If I do not even enter, I get nothing. Take some time to consider which is better.

The way you act about your recipes is a little silly, IMHO. The point of this hobby (to me and many others) is to have an open community of brewers who share their recipes and experiences with one another. It's not a giant competition where we stash away what we create like the soup Nazi, hoping for financial gain from our "work." None of us own a brew pub, and if we did, we'd be disqualified for using said brew pub in creating our beer for the contest (see the rules).

Sam Adams is giving you a chance to get your beer out to thousands and thousands of people, and they're paying you at the same time. You didn't invent free energy; it's a beer recipe. Let it go.

 

[peggjam]

I've never heard of anyone in the homebrewing community not understanding what it is they are agreeing to....

So, if your recipe is kick-ass enough where you KNOW it's your ticket to the high life (so to speak), forget the contest, start up a micro, and sell me some. If you're right, great! What I think you'll find, though, is that the specific recipe is a relatively minor factor in whether your venture is profitable or not; there's a reason that so many microbrewers are so open about their recipes with the homebrew community.

Your so right about the profitable aspect of starting a microbrewery. Granted not every beer is going to get you to the high life, it only takes one, and if you own all the rights to it your made. It's the research and development of a great beer that makes them so expensive to produce, but if you can get the homebrewers to do the research and development for you, uercka, you've hit the jackpot, so to speak of course.

 

[the_bird]

So, answer me this... why do you feel the need to make this your personal cause? Do you think homebrewers aren't smart enough to read the agreement before they sign it? Do you have some kind of vendetta against Sam Adams, or corportations making a profit in general? If you don't like how the contest is set up, fine - but why join a bunch of forums for what appears to be the sole intent to disparage Sam Adams, not to be a member of the community?

 

[ayrton]

Your so right about the profitable aspect of starting a microbrewery. Granted not every beer is going to get you to the high life, it only takes one, and if you own all the rights to it your made. It's the research and development of a great beer that makes them so expensive to produce, but if you can get the homebrewers to do the research and development for you, uercka, you've hit the jackpot, so to speak of course.

But this is a case where everybody wins: Sam Adams employs a pretty slick scheme wherein they pay 5k to a winner and get a great new recipe, and the winner gets 5k and their face on a well-known beer. The average homebrewer (for whom this contest is intended) is not in it for financial gain, so giving up the recipe means precisely bunk.

 

[peggjam]

"The way you act about your recipes is a little silly, IMHO. The point of this hobby (to me and many others) is to have an open community of brewers who share their recipes and experiences with one another. It's not a giant competition where we stash away what we create like the soup Nazi, hoping for financial gain from our "work." None of us own a brew pub, and if we did, we'd be disqualified for using said brew pub in creating our beer for the contest (see the rules)."

That certainly is one way to look at it, the sharing thing. But what if a buddy that you shared your reciepe with took it national, claimed credit for the development of it, wouldn't you be just a tad bit upset? Well in this case, you would be given $5000 and credit for it, but nothing more.

 

[brewt00l]

That certainly is one way to look at it, the sharing thing. But what if a buddy that you shared your reciepe with took it national, claimed credit for the development of it, wouldn't you be just a tad bit upset? Well in this case, you would be given $5000 and credit for it, but nothing more.

apples to oranges...you don't have any expectation that your buddy is going to take your recipe. Sam Adams clearly spells out the rules of the competition and you know this going in.

 

[peggjam]

So, answer me this... why do you feel the need to make this your personal cause? Do you think homebrewers aren't smart enough to read the agreement before they sign it? Do you have some kind of vendetta against Sam Adams, or corportations making a profit in general? If you don't like how the contest is set up, fine - but why join a bunch of forums for what appears to be the sole intent to disparage Sam Adams, not to be a member of the community?

If pointing out the problems with an other wise promiseing contest isn't good ethics, by all means say so. I would like to see Sam Adams change the contest slightly to make it fair....

 

[ayrton]

Well in this case, you would be given $5000 and credit for it, but nothing more.

Oh, well if it's only a measly $5,000, forget it! I'd rather keep the recipe to myself and, um...look at it once in a while.

 

[Orfy]

Heck, most homebrewers pay to have other people taste there brews.
Letting other people sample their creation is a big part of the hobby for some People.

Sam adams seems to encourage home brewers and don't seem to want to rip them off. They don't seem to be short of good selling recipes and I think they are trying to put something into homebrewing rather than taking something out.
I heard an interview with the founder of Sam Adams and he is a homebrewer at heart. He actually brews himself.

All I can say is I think you're on your own on this one.

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

It's not like you can never brew the recipe yourself again, or anyone else for that matter.

 

[the_bird]

I heard an interview with the founder of Sam Adams and he is a homebrewer at heart. He actually brews himself.

It's some absurd percentage of the companies employees are homebrewers - like, 98%. IIRC, the company gave every employee a homebrew kit when this contest was started.

Even their bottles are re-usable and some of the easiest to de-label!

They make a good beer, and Koch is a guy who clearly has a passion for beermaking and an appreciation of the homebrew community. Hell, he could sell the company to Bud in a heartbeat, but he's fighting the good battle and putting out good product.

And, all of the advertisements about the contest have been very straightforward regarding the terms; you get $5,000 and recognition, we get your recipe. What else are they supposed to do, really? Your royalty is, in effect, one time rather than contingent on the number of bottles sold. I still just don't get what's wrong with that, and clearly you aren't changing your mind, so probably best to just drop this completely.

 

[Yooper]

I don't know of any contest that requires you to give up the rights to the design, reciepe, or content of an item entered.....other than this one. Remember the space vechile design contest......the winner did not give up their design as a part of participating in the contest. I'm quite sure that when one realizes what they have lost as a result of entering a contest and winning, there will be some internal whining.....sorry, I feel Sam Adams is screwing every winner by not including some profit sharing as part of this contest. But that's just my HO .

I think that 50 years of the Pillsbury bake-off has similar rules. You win the cash, they publish the recipe, and now "own" it. Those poor little old ladies!

I'm under no illusions that my beer is good enough to win any major awards and become a multimillion dollar seller. Jeez, I GIVE it away around here. I'd be happy to get $5 first price at the county fair, as long as the person trying it enjoyed it.

If $5000 prize isn't enough for you, then maybe you shouldn't enter.

 

[ayrton]

I think that 50 years of the Pillsbury bake-off has similar rules. You win the cash, they publish the recipe, and now "own" it. Those poor little old ladies!

Pillsbury has a bake-off? Man, how great would it be to be a judge for both competitions? Load up on baked goods, and then load up on beer.

 

[Wolf]

considering it's just my oppinion, and I have the right to express it who are you to question why?

Well if you want to express your opinion somewhere and NOT have anyone question it, then this isn't the right place to do so.
Try an opinion page or some other place that doesn't invite immediate replies.
I'm not trying to run you off, but saying you have the right to post your opinion but noone has the right to question it is just silly.

And just to make the point again...If you don't like the contest you probably shouldn't enter it. Those who did enter it clearly have no problem with it.

 

[Pumbaa]

Because I think it's a screw deal.....is that answer enough for you? I also think Exxon/Mobile posting a 32 billion profit is also a screw deal...considering it's just my oppinion, and I have the right to express it who are you to question why?

OK I see the problem right here . . . you just hate corperations. You hate the fact someone may be able to do something with something you cant do jack squat with. You'll happily take a steamer on a contest many people enjoy and feel rewarded with just by particpating in it just because you dont have the know how, desire or ability to take your recipie and profit from it.

OOOOOO Sam Adams is evil!
They help expose people to, participate in, and enjoy a hobby . . . THOSE BASTARDS!!
OMFG how didnt I see this before? This is nothing short of pure explotaion of home brewing!!!

Well I for one wont stand for it! I suggest that all of us homebrews should rise up and put down those imperial capitalistic pigs with a new rebelion of unsen proportions! Shortly after the forming of this nation we had the Whiskey Rebellion, now it's time for the HOME BREW REBELLION! To arms my fellow home brewers!! Grab you mash paddels and hydrometers! It's off to Boston we go to put down the evil oppressors by swilling down all their product then pissing into their accounting books! If that isnt enuff we shall then vomit into their ill gotten recipie books!

The Home Brew Nation will not stand for such injustice!
We SHALL prevail!!
WE MUST PREVAIL!!!!
/cue Battle Hymn of the Republic




























anyone got a tin foil hat I can borrow?

 

[Yooper]

Pillsbury has a bake-off? Man, how great would it be to be a judge for both competitions? Load up on baked goods, and then load up on beer.

Where have you been? My grandmother used to try to develop recipes for the bake-off:

From Pillsbury's website: Since 1949, the Pillsbury Bake-Off® Contest has recognized and rewarded creative home cooks across America. Winning recipes from past contests. Build a memorable meal with these show-stoppers.
See all the Pillsbury Bake-Off® recipes »

I'll email them, and tell them that you're happy to judge it! You have to eat EVERYTHING, though- even the funky gelled stuff, from the 50s.

And, Pumbaa, you are my HERO! (swoons..........)

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

Quit feeding the troll. I'm closing this farce.