Saison recipe?

[blagooba]

Hi all

Looking to make a Saison, 20l batch.

I have 5kg of pilsner malt. The recipe calls for sorachi ace hops but they are pretty expensive for the 200g i would need.

I have some saaz left over so i am debating if this would be a credible change to the recipe.

Also would it be worth adding 250g of carapils for some head retention?

Any other advice?


Thanks

 

[thehaze]

Saaz will do just fine. I would not add CaraPils or any other Crystal/Caramel malt to the recipe.

A Saison is a very yeast driven beer, so the most important thing would be the yeast choice. All Pilsner with Saaz and the right yeast, will yield a pretty awesome beer. Mash low and ferment warm. Cheers.

 

[radwizard]

I prefer the Saaz to Sorachi in a Saison. You could add some honey when fermentation slows if you want to add a little something to it...
What's the yeast?

 

[RM-MN]

A recipe is a record of what someone else made. It makes a good starting point for you to modify. Substituting a different hop will get you a different flavor than what the original was but this will be your beer. Make sure to compare the alpha acid for each hop so you get the right amount of bitterness. The current crop of Sorachi Ace hops has an alpha acid of 9% while Saaz is only 3%. That means that to get the same bitterness you need 3 times as much Saaz as Sorachi Ace.

I haven't used Carapils for years as I find that with technique I get good heading without it. I feel using Carapils is a crutch for poor technique. JMHO

 

[blagooba]

Hi all thanks for the feedback.

I purchased the little saison yeast from the crossmyloof brewery.

Not sure if this is a well known brand but again i dont think experimenting is a bad thing.

Thanks again

 

[TGFV]

Saison is one of those styles that it doesn't really matter for a good portion of ingredients, since it is a huge and forgiving style.

If you are looking for a funky, refreshing saison then the saaz in any amount would be a great substitution, and if you are worried about bitterness, just remember that saisons are often very low FG and any perceived bitterness is easily noticeable.

 

[blagooba]

A recipe is a record of what someone else made. It makes a good starting point for you to modify. Substituting a different hop will get you a different flavor than what the original was but this will be your beer. Make sure to compare the alpha acid for each hop so you get the right amount of bitterness. The current crop of Sorachi Ace hops has an alpha acid of 9% while Saaz is only 3%. That means that to get the same bitterness you need 3 times as much Saaz as Sorachi Ace.

I haven't used Carapils for years as I find that with technique I get good heading without it. I feel using Carapils is a crutch for poor technique. JMHO

So the recipe calls for 168g of 12% sorachi ace at various times etc during and after mash. So that means i would need 672g of 3% saaz to get similar intensity? That seems way too much? Any idea on a better level for a 20l batch?

Thanks again

 

[Smellyglove]

Use a "neutral" bittering hop, like german magum, and add saaz as flavor.

 

[blagooba]

Thanks. Just nit sure on how much of what and when:/

 

[deadwolfbones]

You don't have to do exactly what the recipe says.

What are the expected IBUs from the recipe?

 

[RM-MN]

So the recipe calls for 168g of 12% sorachi ace at various times etc during and after mash. So that means i would need 672g of 3% saaz to get similar intensity? That seems way too much? Any idea on a better level for a 20l batch?

Thanks again

Without a complete listing of the recipe and the hop timings I'm left to guess what the recipe creator intended. Hops added at the beginning of the boil are used to gain bittering. Later additions will add to this bitterness and add flavor and/or aroma. Any hop added before the wort is chilled below about 170F will be adding bitterness and the amount depends on the time spent in the hot wort.

 

[beerlover77]

I like to add 10% wheat, 10% rye and 5% sugar (to dry it out). Ferment warm/hot to get good esters (I like a yeast that produces fruity spicy notes) saaz is a great hop for any Saison.

I would say no to carapils but my recipe calls for a 5% of C-35 (carastan) and it turns out really good

 

[blagooba]

Original for hops / timings all 12% sorachi ace
14g 60min
14g 30 mins
56g 0 mins
84g 5-7 days

Mash - i dont think i can achieve all of these steps...
Mash 50c for 10 mins
63c for 60 mins
67c for 15 mins
Mash out at 75c
Add 1lb corn sugar

Ferment 22c

Hope this helps

 

[blagooba]

Final comment from me

Going with about 4 oz of saaz. Read a lit that this nit so bitter hop is better to allow the funk to shine through...

2oz for 60 mins
1oz for 30 mins
1oz for 7 days dry hopping

Any final thoughts really appreciated

 

[TGFV]

Sounds delicious to me! Keep us updated!

 

[helibrewer]

Final comment from me

Going with about 4 oz of saaz. Read a lit that this nit so bitter hop is better to allow the funk to shine through...

2oz for 60 mins
1oz for 30 mins
1oz for 7 days dry hopping

Any final thoughts really appreciated

I like this hop schedule much better, but then I prefer a nice dry, yeast forward Saison, not the hoppy styles. I think the original schedule called for far too much bitterness.

 

[blagooba]

Guys tastes great so far after one week fermenting is finished and I got an fg of 1.008 which i think is okay.

Tastes dry and smooth woth the right level of bitterness. Got the ibu to 30.

7.09% as added 450g of sugar to wort.


Havent dry hopped yet. Might go for it as nothing to lose and learnt its good without for next time.

 

[TGFV]

Glad to hear it tastes great! Not sure how long it has been fermenting for but make sure it it stable (multiple checks spread out).

Most of my saisons ranged from .000 ->.009 with the highest one being a pumpkin saison with a ridiculous amount of pumpkin added.