Saison, make it mine

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Jloewe

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I just bought a saison kit from the LHBS. Came with t-58. I see it’s not ideal for a saison but it looks close and it’s what I have.

Anyhow, I really want to make this mine out of pride and I think it’s fun. Spices and fruit that I could add? I was thinking ginger and fresh orange zest since it’s stiff I have on hand. How much to add?

Also will I need a starter for the t-58? I feel like it’s a rather tiny packet compared to what I’ve bought in the past.
 

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How much are you brewing?
Also for a saison I would get a saison yeast. I don't believe T-58 will give you what you want.
 
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Jloewe

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How much are you brewing?
Also for a saison I would get a saison yeast. I don't believe T-58 will give you what you want.
5 gallons. It may end up getting pushed back. I know I’m gonna take flack for letting a LME kit sit a while…. But I have multiple brew projects going on that need to be done for fall. But after research I’m likely to get a true saison yeast and get that going on the winter maybe when the wood stove is cranking and take advantage of the heat. Since I have no temp control I try and manipulate recipes around circumstances.
 

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I once did a lemon zest and black pepper saison that was really good. With this style the sky's the limit. Good luck :mug:
 
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How about Raison de Saison...

Lean into your darkening LME by adding a few oz of special b and a half pound of pureed golden raisins after primary fermentation. For saisons I like 3711+3724 but T-58 will do fine, ferment it a bit warmer for more estery character.
 

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I know I’m gonna take flack for letting a LME kit sit a while…. But
Proper storage of LME (fridge/freezer/...) will slow down aging/darkening/...

It also has the pleasant side effect preventing people from giving you flack. :)

edit: typoz
 
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Me personally, with so many variables to juggle, SRM is at the bottom of my list. Flavor, #1. Intoxicating effects, #2. Slakes my man-thirst, #3........

.....Matches my mood, #56.... Matches my suit, #57........Overall color, #58.
 
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Jloewe

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Do you love the flavor of pumpkin, or of pumpkin spice? I've thought about a pumpkin spiced ale but myself, I wouldn't bother with pumpkin because I don't like the flavor.
Both really. Well pumpkin pie and all that jazz. So more the spice but I love the pumpkin that carries it. I am kinda skeptical about a pumpkin saison though because all the best pumpkin ales I’ve had are kind of sweet wheat ales or sweet stouts and porters. I’ve had saison and like it quite a bit but to me it’s too dry for what I’m really looking for.
Been so many post lately I don’t remember what I said where…. But I have a busy brew schedule coming down the pipe. Including a hefe with my dad on Sunday (Fathers day project), a pumpkin ale I want ready to drink first week of September, and the NB peanut butter cup stout I want ready to drink October 1st. So part of my thought to get the saison which was supposed to be done but my bud and I did an ipa together instead can help be kill 2 birds one stone.
 

cmac62

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Both really. Well pumpkin pie and all that jazz. So more the spice but I love the pumpkin that carries it. I am kinda skeptical about a pumpkin saison though because all the best pumpkin ales I’ve had are kind of sweet wheat ales or sweet stouts and porters. I’ve had saison and like it quite a bit but to me it’s too dry for what I’m really looking for.
Been so many post lately I don’t remember what I said where…. But I have a busy brew schedule coming down the pipe. Including a hefe with my dad on Sunday (Fathers day project), a pumpkin ale I want ready to drink first week of September, and the NB peanut butter cup stout I want ready to drink October 1st. So part of my thought to get the saison which was supposed to be done but my bud and I did an ipa together instead can help be kill 2 birds one stone.
A Pumpkin milk Saison may take care of the overly dry part, just add in some Lactose to add a little body.
 
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Jloewe

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A Pumpkin milk Saison may take care of the overly dry part, just add in some Lactose to add a little body.
Hmmm I like that idea. I tbjnk we’re getting on a good track. What about replacing the Vienna that came in there with some smoked malt? Just a little looking for something subtle. That September and October “something wicked this way comes”
 

cmac62

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Hmmm I like that idea. I tbjnk we’re getting on a good track. What about replacing the Vienna that came in there with some smoked malt? Just a little looking for something subtle. That September and October “something wicked this way comes”
smoke the pumpkin or the spices, but I think the pumpkin would take on more of the smoke. A smoked pumpkin pale might be really good. Use some piney hops like Chinook. Oh forgot this is a saison. LOL So a smoked pumpkin spiced saison. :yes:
 
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Jloewe

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smoke the pumpkin or the spices, but I think the pumpkin would take on more of the smoke. A smoked pumpkin pale might be really good. Use some piney hops like Chinook. Oh forgot this is a saison. LOL So a smoked pumpkin spiced saison. :yes:
How do I smoke the pumpkin? I have two smokers so that’s not an issue at all. But wood recommendation? I’d think applewood or cherry something mild. Just a whole ass pumpkin?
 

cmac62

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I'd use a real cooking pumpkin first, then cut it up into manageable pieces and put on the smoker. I'd guess 30-45 mins should give some good flavor and my first thought of wood choice was pecan, but apple or cherry would also be great choices.
 
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Jloewe

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I'd use a real cooking pumpkin first, then cut it up into manageable pieces and put on the smoker. I'd guess 30-45 mins should give some good flavor and my first thought of wood choice was pecan, but apple or cherry would also be great choices.
Now I’m so excited about getting brewing and smoking together I might bag out of work lol
 
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Jloewe

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I'd use a real cooking pumpkin first, then cut it up into manageable pieces and put on the smoker. I'd guess 30-45 mins should give some good flavor and my first thought of wood choice was pecan, but apple or cherry would also be great choices.
Silly question…. If I have trouble finding a pumpkin could I just smoke a can or two in a grill friendly dish? Looks like most people I read about are smoking only for a bit then roasting. Or roasting and finishing off with 20 minutes of a light smoke.
 

cmac62

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Well you could do both in a pellet smoker, but that may end up with too much smoke. I don't see why you couldn't smoke canned pumpkin on a cookie sheet, and then I'm not sure how much additional cooking the canned stuff would need.
 
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Jloewe

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Well you could do both in a pellet smoker, but that may end up with too much smoke. I don't see why you couldn't smoke canned pumpkin on a cookie sheet, and then I'm not sure how much additional cooking the canned stuff would need.
I have a bullet charcoal and a Weber kettle. Probably no actually cooking just a little dab of the good stuff.
 
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Jloewe

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I’ll be brewing this sometime during the week.

Getting an extra couple pounds of grain. Still haven’t decided smoked grain or smoked pumpkin. But here’s the plan.

Mash 1lbs Vienna and 2lbs 2 row (or smoked) with whatever specialty and flaked what I got with the kit. Mash a can of pumpkin as well (looking for a noticeable but subtle pumpkin and smoke)

3lbs dme boils for 60.
1oz I Believe it’s northern brewer at 60

1lbs dme at 15

1oz northern brewer at 10 (possibly at flameout)

1tsp pumpkin spice at flameout

Top off and pitch t58

It’s a spicy yeast in the middle of the summer in the middle of a heat wave so even though I’m at basement temps I wouldn’t be surprised if I struggled a little on keeping temps down. Which is ok with this style. We’re not talking too hot might get up to 68 if the heat keeps up.

Options I was thinking of is adding a pound of lactose to balance out the dryness with a hint sweetness. Someone mentioned it here and it’s Belgian so I guess anything goes right?
 

cmac62

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It’s a spicy yeast in the middle of the summer in the middle of a heat wave so even though I’m at basement temps I wouldn’t be surprised if I struggled a little on keeping temps down. Which is ok with this style. We’re not talking too hot might get up to 68 if the heat keeps up.

Options I was thinking of is adding a pound of lactose to balance out the dryness with a hint sweetness. Someone mentioned it here and it’s Belgian so I guess anything goes right?
The temp sound a little low really, but that will be okay, you have spice and smoke and pumpkin no real need for the yeast to be overly characterful. Also, with the lactose, have you tried stevia? Plus you can do all of that post fermentation. :mug:
 
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Jloewe

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The temp sound a little low really, but that will be okay, you have spice and smoke and pumpkin no real need for the yeast to be overly characterful. Also, with the lactose, have you tried stevia? Plus you can do all of that post fermentation. :mug:
Hate the taste of stevia in coffee. Not sure if it will be different in beer. But if it’s a proper substitute I’m sure it’s cheaper and more available. I’m super stoked though. This is a fairly creative brew!
 

cmac62

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There are a bunch of nonfermentable sweeteners out there (can't think of them right now) but wait and see what it's like without and add something to the bottles/keg.
 
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Jloewe

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Ok, partially off advice of the lhbs staff ended up with this. Partially me, partially my kit.

1lbs Vienna some flaked wheat and whatever Carmel came in the kit.
1/4 lbs smoked beechwood (advice of lhbs)
2 lbs 2 row
1 can pumpkin.

Did about 3 gallons so I wouldn’t have to spargr much. BIAB. Did run some water from the since over the bag into a bowl. Was getting somewhat clear but because it’s a mini mash wasn’t loosing sleep over efficiency.

Mashed at 150 for an hour.

60 min boil.

NB hops at 60
3lbs dme at 45 (wanted to be sure I had something for the hops)
1 lbs dme and 1 oz nb at 15
1lbs syrup at 15

2 tsp great value pumpkin spice at flameout

Top off to 5 gallons

Pitched t-58 at about 75.
Due to heatwave ambient temp in basement is 70.

Couldn’t find the turkey baster so no gravity readings. Although original kit expected 5.4% so obviously a little more than that.

To balance out any over dryness with the pumpkin I was advised to try some vanilla at bottling. It will give that “perceived” sweetness without ruining the effect of all that I already have going on.

Things I would change if I did the kit from scratch so far.

I’d replace the flaked with wheat malt. The Vienna came with the kit. That would be replaced with 2 row or possibly wheat malt. I’d add another can of pumpkin because I wanted more orange. Might even really cut back however much Carmel they put in there. But it’s hard to tell in the fermenter.

Will keep updates at bottling. Then again 2 weeks after when I finally have a cold one.
 

cmac62

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It will be interesting if you get the amount of smoke out of the 1/4 lb. When I have used that it didn't translate well into a smokiness. Let us know when tasted. :mug:
 

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I know this is probably too late to help the OP. I've rather new to brewing (just a year in) but the saison and belgian styles is why I started.
I've done 2 batches in which I've used rosemary and orange peel. Both turned out very goon to me.

The first one, my husband ordered an IPA it that was going to be waaaay too hoppy for me. I read online that rosemary was a reasonable substitute for hops. So, I reduced the hops that came in the kit by more than half and used a sizable sprig from my rosemary bush and used the orange peels I froze from my blood oranges. I put both in toward the end of the brew with the hops and left them in until I transferred to the 2ndary bucket.

The 2nd one I did a belgian style blond ale. This time I brewed a tea of the rosemary and orange peels and added it to the 2ndary when I transferred. I reasoned that if I wasn't satisfied that it flavored enough, I could add more later.

Both methods seemed to work well for me and the subtle flavor was great.

Clare
 
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Jloewe

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I know this is probably too late to help the OP. I've rather new to brewing (just a year in) but the saison and belgian styles is why I started.
I've done 2 batches in which I've used rosemary and orange peel. Both turned out very goon to me.

The first one, my husband ordered an IPA it that was going to be waaaay too hoppy for me. I read online that rosemary was a reasonable substitute for hops. So, I reduced the hops that came in the kit by more than half and used a sizable sprig from my rosemary bush and used the orange peels I froze from my blood oranges. I put both in toward the end of the brew with the hops and left them in until I transferred to the 2ndary bucket.

The 2nd one I did a belgian style blond ale. This time I brewed a tea of the rosemary and orange peels and added it to the 2ndary when I transferred. I reasoned that if I wasn't satisfied that it flavored enough, I could add more later.

Both methods seemed to work well for me and the subtle flavor was great.

Clare
Too late for this brew maybe since it’s about to be bottled within the next two weekends but never too late overall! If it comes out well I may be copying that. After a couple bottles I’ll see if I end up in a Belgian kick.
 
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