Saison Help

[Veinman]

I just got my 3711 Saison yeast from the store and I'm starting to plan a Saison for summer (I'm going with the "if you brew it summer will come" theory as its -22 and snowing right now).

Anyways I have tried only 2 homebrewed saisons so I have a ton of questions that hopefully I can get some help with. First the tentative recipe:
6.5 lbs 2-Row
1.0 lb Wheat Malt
0.5 lb Munich Malt
1.0 lb Dextrose
2.0 oz Hallertauer at 60 mins (26 IBUs)
1.0 oz Hallertauer at 5 mins (3.1 IBUs)
5 minute spices
.5 oz coriander
.5 oz Grains of Paradise
.5 oz Bitter Orange peel
French Saison 3711 Wyeast

Mash at 149-150F

OG 1.048
FG ??? 1.006 is a guess-- more on that below
IBUS 30

My first question is about how high to set my OG. I have heard that 3711 will chew through anything and can drop the FG's really low. I want an easy drinking saison in the 5-5.5% ABV range which means if I'm expecting a FG of 1.006 my OG should only be around 1.048 max.

So question 1: What FG should I expect mashing at 149 and fermenting starting at 63F?

Question 2: Anything else I should know about fermenting with 3711 or making a saison in general?

Thanks

 

[brewhooligan]

Wyeast 3711 makes for some pretty dry beers. Expect roughly 80% attenuation. However, I wouldn't ferment at 63 degrees. You'll want to keep fermentation temps higher than you're probably comfortable with. I'm currently brewing a Saison with the exact same yeast, and Wyeast's website indicates that it likes temps in the upper 70's...and that's pretty low compared to most Saison yeasts.

It's about 55 degrees in my basement. So I've got the fermenter under a wardrobe box that I got from U-haul, and fixed one of those dryer vent hoses to pump warm air from a heating duct into it. It seems to be working so far.

 

[Veinman]

Great info thanks.

Another question I forgot to ask initially is how long from grain to glass should I expect. I'm thinking I want this drinkable around June 1 and I've heard this yeast takes longer to ferment, does it also take longer to condition and does a saison do better if conditioned for 2-3 months before drinking?

 

[boostsr20]

3711 is fast and furious. It took my wort from 1068 to 1005 in about a week. How log it ages is up to you.

 

[Veinman]

3711 is fast and furious. It took my wort from 1068 to 1005 in about a week. How log it ages is up to you.

Good to hear thanks.
Can you tell me what temperature you had it fermenting at? and how much ester flavor you detected after fermentation? too much, not enough, just right?

 

[Berock]

I would think about changing the 2 row to pilsner to get that grainy taste associated with saison.

 

[twigboy2000]

You'll also hear both sides of the fence on adding the spices. I personally prefer not to and let the yeast add the spicy/citrusy character. However, I usually use the 3724 strain and don't have expierience with the character of the 3711.

-chuck

 

[Homercidal]

+1 on the Pilsner.

And you really want it hot for the yeast to get those funky flavors. I would go 80s or higher if you really want to risk it.

I don't think I've use the 3711. Might have been the 3724 I used before. You know what, I think I have beersmith on my memory stick. Hold on...

Yep, I do. And I left the yeast off of that recipe. Anyway, my yeast took a while to get to the last little bit. 149F on the mash is as high as I would like to go. I think you want it real dry.

 

[Veinman]

I will make the update to the recipe with Pilsner malt thanks guys.

I can easily ferment in a 73F room plus I have a brew belt and blankets and smaller heater I'm sure I can get to 80-85F maybe more not I've never worked to get temperature UP before just spent lots of time keeping them down.

Another question is about the best fermentation temperature schedule
Do I start at 80F and go up from there or start at 70F and ramp it up or just keep it at 80F, I also haven't incrimental increases before either so this should be a learning experience if nothing else.

 

[beeraroundtown]

Keep it in the mid to low 70s with 3711. The 80+ is more for the 3724, 3725, 3726 yeast. You should finish out below 1.005, this yeast has a tendency to keep going as well, so I'd advise using heavier glass if you prime near 3 volumes as I've seen this yeast get down to 1.001.

 

[Veinman]

Keep it in the mid to low 70s with 3711. The 80+ is more for the 3724, 3725, 3726 yeast. You should finish out below 1.005, this yeast has a tendency to keep going as well, so I'd advise using heavier glass if you prime near 3 volumes as I've seen this yeast get down to 1.001.

So I should have done this from the beginning but kept meaning to actually check wyeast's site for information. Anyways found out that:

French Saison-3711
Flocculation: Low
Attenuation: 77-83%
Temperature Range: 65-77F 18-25C

Belgian Saison-3724
Flocculation: Low
Attenuation: 76-80%
Temperature Range: 70-95F, 21-35C

So there is obviously a large temperature discrepancy between the 2. Looking at this I'll probably keep the ambient fermentation temperature around 70-72F for a max temp of around 78F while fermenting and watch it carefully to see how low the gravity drops.

 

[beeraroundtown]

I haven't found much of a difference in flavor profile on this yeast at different temps, so don't stress about the exact temps too much, I'd keep it in the lower range of the 70s as if it gets to hot it just spits out excess phenolics, you'll get pepper either way, just at the high temps it can be overwhelming and some fusels. Give it two weeks in primary and it will be "done", but careful with bottling.