Historical Beer: Sahti Sahti (Finnish Juniper Ale) -- 1st Place Cat. 23, 2nd place Best in Show

[RobMT]

Just doughed in.

HOLY CRAP does this ever smell great. The juniper liquor is ridiculously fragrant. I couldn't keep my face away from the water as it was heating up. I'll follow up with how everything turns out!

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Excellent! I'm very surprised you could find juniper this time of year. I hope it turns out amazing!

Piece of advice: clean your equipment ASAP afterwards. The juniper sap turns to liquid cement real quick.

 

[forstmeister]

Does this require true juniper (juniperus species)? I am a Finn and my dad would love this. He is going to Finland next year... Maybe I can convince him to bring back yeast. What is the best yeast for the recipe?

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Well you're supposed to use Finnish bread yeast.... but I just went with something neutral.

Also, there's fake juniper?

 

[forstmeister]

Well you're supposed to use Finnish bread yeast.... but I just went with something neutral.

Also, there's fake juniper?

Not necessarily fake juniper, but common names of trees and shrubs are very misleading at times. I am curious about the actual species used since all I've seen so far is "juniper" from multiple sources. It could be juniperus virginiana or something else entirely.

 

[D-Hutt]

Wikipedia says that this stuff traditionally has a strong banana flavor. Would a wheat yeast be more appropriate than a neutral one?

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Not necessarily fake juniper, but common names of trees and shrubs are very misleading at times. I am curious about the actual species used since all I've seen so far is "juniper" from multiple sources. It could be juniperus virginiana or something else entirely.

There are quite a few species in the genus juniperus, all of which are actually juniper. My species is californicus. East-coasters have virginiana. Wikipedia has all the species and growing regions.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Wikipedia says that this stuff traditionally has a strong banana flavor. Would a wheat yeast be more appropriate than a neutral one?

Sounds good to me if you want to try it. Maybe I'll do a split-batch next time.

 

[DerCribben]

What kind of Finnish bread yeast do you use? I'll be in Finland from 10/14 to 10/29 and if I find the stuff you're all looking for I'll bring some back and mail it to whoever wants me to. Tell me what it is (I'll look into it too) and when I find it there and tell you the cost you can send money to my PayPal to cover the yeast and postage to you and I'll mail it out when I get back to the USA.

 

[D-Hutt]

Sounds good to me if you want to try it. Maybe I'll do a split-batch next time.

Might give it a shot then. W3068? Maybe try and push those esters to the max with a high temp. Sounds like a fun experiment to me. I'll try to start planning it out.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

What kind of Finnish bread yeast do you use? I'll be in Finland from 10/14 to 10/29 and if I find the stuff you're all looking for I'll bring some back and mail it to whoever wants me to. Tell me what it is (I'll look into it too) and when I find it there and tell you the cost you can send money to my PayPal to cover the yeast and postage to you and I'll mail it out when I get back to the USA.

Count me in!!

 

[DerCribben]

Count me in!!

Cheers! (or should I say Kippis) I'll post in this thread from Finland, I may try to hook up with some Sahti brewers there too although I don't see a chapter of their club down in Turku where I'll be. Check out www.kotiolut.com (you may want to run it through google translate though), that's the Finnish "housebeer" forum and I bet there's some stuff there on sahti.

 

[forstmeister]

Cheers! (or should I say Kippis) I'll post in this thread from Finland, I may try to hook up with some Sahti brewers there too although I don't see a chapter of their club down in Turku where I'll be. Check out www.kotiolut.com (you may want to run it through google translate though), that's the Finnish "housebeer" forum and I bet there's some stuff there on sahti.

Awesome! I would be interested in some.

 

[Arska]

There are quite a few species in the genus juniperus, all of which are actually juniper. My species is californicus. East-coasters have virginiana. Wikipedia has all the species and growing regions.

Hi from Finland. The correct juniper is Juniperus Communis.

What kind of Finnish bread yeast do you use? I'll be in Finland from 10/14 to 10/29 and if I find the stuff you're all looking for I'll bring some back and mail it to whoever wants me to. Tell me what it is (I'll look into it too) and when I find it there and tell you the cost you can send money to my PayPal to cover the yeast and postage to you and I'll mail it out when I get back to the USA.

The most common is called "jätkähiiva" or "pullahiiva". It looks like this: http://www03.edu.fi/oppimateriaalit/hygieniaosaaminen/hiivat1.htm
(the top picture) U can find it in every grocery store.
But.. I have a feeling, that this yeast won't live back to the states, I'd might recommend dry bakers yeast. There has been lots of debate about dry yeast vs "wet/block" yeast, but in this case.. Dry yeast might be the best option.

 

[DerCribben]

Moi Arska, Kiitos!

That's the stuff I was looking at from suomenhiiva.fi, I figure if I buy it the day I leave it should survive the flight over to my fridge in the states. My hulluvaimo Teija is also convinced Finnish goods wouldn't stay fresh on a flight here. I've talked about bringing ruisleipä back and she swears it will be spoiled before we land lol. Not that we have room after filling our bags with salmiakki anyway

 

[seatbelt123]

Not necessarily fake juniper, but common names of trees and shrubs are very misleading at times. I am curious about the actual species used since all I've seen so far is "juniper" from multiple sources. It could be juniperus virginiana or something else entirely.

We have mostly juniperus virginiana (aka "eastern red cedar") in North Carolina. I'm tempted to brew with it but I'd like to know if anybody else has.

Also, the advice is to use the mature blue-ish berries, not the green ones, right?

Thanks!

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Yeah you'll want to use the blue ones. There are usually a few green ones that sneak in but it's fine.

 

[seatbelt123]

What OG and FG are we shooting for?

 

[Reno_eNVy]

It's right there on the original post:

Exp. OG: 1.054
Exp. FG: 1.012

 

[seatbelt123]

I picked up the ingredients for a slightly stronger 6 gallon batch (assuming 80% eff), I also modified the recipe a bit.

I hope to brew this tomorrow. I will keep you posted!

Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name Time Gravity
2.40 lbs 17.02 % Briess Rye Malt 60 mins 1.035
0.90 lbs 6.38 % Briess 2-Row Caramel 120L 60 mins 1.032
4.80 lbs 34.04 % Weyermann Pilsner 60 mins 1.038
4.80 lbs 34.04 % Pale Malt (2 Row) US 60 mins 1.036
1.20 lbs 8.51 % Dark Munich 60 mins 1.038

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Did you manage to find juniper branches and berries? And will you be using grains of paradise as well? I feel like they really add something.

 

[seatbelt123]

Did you manage to find juniper branches and berries? And will you be using grains of paradise as well? I feel like they really add something.

Yes, berries, (some) branches and grains if paradise. I bought the berries because I couldn't find enough mature/blue berries locally. I will use some branches.

 

[SkiNuke]

I am thinking of doing a sahti in a few weeks. My plan was to actually mash the branches by making a nice layer of berry-laden branches on the bottom of the mash tun and then mashing like normal at 150F for 60 minutes.

In terms of boiling, I want to at least bring it to a quick boil to ensure that everything in it is dead. But I am uncertain if i should take a hit in efficiency and sparge with less water, or if I should go ahead and boil for 60 minutes. And if I boil for 60 minutes, will I have lost enough flavor that i will need to add more berries at flame-out? (I typically boil off almost 2 gallons in an hour.)

 

[watersr]

So Reno, any branches ready to ship?

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I've been working in an area about 5 miles from where I usually harvest. I'm looking at a juniper tree right now completely devoid of berries.

However I am sitting on a geothermal hot spot so that might affect production. I'll be sure to check by my house tonight (higher elevation of ~5200ft, less geothermal activity)

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Hey if there is anybody interested in juniper branches and berries to be shipped they will be good to go by the beginning of February.

They will be the species Juniperus californica and have some excellent flavor and aroma. If there is anybody who lives in an area with J. communis or J. virginiana and are willing to ship please speak up. I'm sure there are people who want to pick and choose.

 

[lschiavo]

Count me in! I would like enough for 10 gallons. PM the details and I'll get you the $. Thanks!

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Well I think the easiest and cheapest thing to do would be to wait for details and payment after other people have expressed interest. Then I can make one trip up to the hills to collect all at once.

I usually fill my jansport backpack full for 5 gallons, and that's roughly 1 cubic foot. But I try not to squish them in or compress them. I imagine I could fit 5 gallons worth into a flatrate big envelope no problem.

I expect it shouldn't be expensive at all.

 

[D-Hutt]

Provided the expense is manageable, I'd be interested in enough for a 5 gallon batch. Thanks!

 

[lschiavo]

Well I think the easiest and cheapest thing to do would be to wait for details and payment after other people have expressed interest. Then I can make one trip up to the hills to collect all at once.

I usually fill my jansport backpack full for 5 gallons, and that's roughly 1 cubic foot. But I try not to squish them in or compress them. I imagine I could fit 5 gallons worth into a flatrate big envelope no problem.

I expect it shouldn't be expensive at all.

Certainly. I'm in no rush. I've been thinking about this brew for a few years and with no juniper here, could not pull it off without some help. I really appreciate your time and effort. If there is anything I can ship out to you from the UP, let me know.