Sage Pale Ale or Gruit?

[benflath]

I love sage. The sage in my garden is going nuts and it's begging to be used in a beer. I can't decide if I want to go with a pale ale or if I want to bitter with something besides hops. Below are my grain bill and two bittering thoughts. Yeast is still up in the air. American Ale? London Ale? Belgian Ale? Who wants to weigh in?

General:
5.5 gal batch
Mash 60 min @ 150 F
Sparge w/ 170 F

Fermentables:
7 lbs Pils
2.5 lbs wheat malt
1.5 lbs flaked wheat
0.5 lbs honey

Bittering Option 1:
1.5 oz Willamette @ 60 min
1.5 oz sage @10 min
X oz sage tincture in secondary (if necessary)

Bittering Option 2:
1 oz sage @ 30 min
1 oz yarrow @ 30 min
1 oz sage @ 5 min
1 oz yarrow @ 5 min
X oz sage tincture in secondary (if necessary)

 

[reed1911]

Man,I just cannot see this being good.

 

[abrix]

@reed1911, have you brewed with sage before?

For the OP, if you haven't brewed with sage and/or yarrow before, I would keep the yeast simple and neutral (US-05/WLP-001/1056) and go with bittering option #1.

WRT to the yarrow/sage option, the only gruit I've brewed that I really liked used Labrador Tea as a substitute for the traditional Marsh Rosemary, which I think adds a much-needed bitterness.

 

[peterj]

I just brewed a test batch of a rosemary orange IPA this past weekend. In the planning phase, I considered using sage with the rosemary, but I decided that it seemed too savory and reminded me of meat or something a little too much. But I don't know, it could work. It's worth a shot. I've never done a gruit so no experience there. If you went with using hops, I might add some flavor/aroma hops at the 10 or 15 minute mark and then add the sage at flameout and let it steep for a bit. If you boil the sage you're just boiling off flavor and aroma.

 

[abrix]

If you boil the sage you're just boiling off flavor and aroma.

Of the three sage ale recipes in Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers (my go-to for this kind of thing), (A) adds sage at flameout, (B) boils it for three hours, and (C) boils the sage for one hour with more added during primary fermentation.

So you've got options. I did (C) for an 11% pale ale malt/sage SMaSH* five or six years ago and it has been greatly enjoyed by many over the years.

*Single Malt and Single Herb???

 

[peterj]

Of the three sage ale recipes in Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers (my go-to for this kind of thing), (A) adds sage at flameout, (B) boils it for three hours, and (C) boils the sage for one hour with more added during primary fermentation.

So you've got options. I did (C) for an 11% pale ale malt/sage SMaSH* five or six years ago and it has been greatly enjoyed by many over the years.

*Single Malt and Single Herb???

3 hours!! Wow! I guess if you're using the sage to bitter that makes sense to boil it for a while though. Does sage have a bittering quality?

 

[abrix]

Any bitterness from sage (to my taste) is mild at best, and I think three hours is excessive.

To be fair, the recipe that calls for a three hour boil with the sage is from the 1800s, uses "1 handful fresh sage" and has a pre-boil volume of "5 pailsful". (Try putting that into BeerSmith!) I think it's really more of a molasses beer that happens to use a little sage to try and take the edge off the molasses.

 

[Xpertskir]

I recently had "cellar door" by stillwater which is a white sage saison. It was mind blowingly good. I have an email into him about sage dosing, I'll report back if he shares anything relevant.

 

[reed1911]

@reed1911, have you brewed with sage before?

No, nor would I =consider it. I enjoy sage in cooking and like it more than most, but it is not a flavor I would find appealing in beer.

 

[benflath]

Thanks all! I've also reached out to Upright Brewing, who's gruit I enjoyed recently. They use lemongrass, hyssop, Sichuan peppercorns, and both bitter and sweet orange peels.

peterj: I'm considering using something like Sorachi for aroma. Rumor has it they have some lemony flavors and that would go nicely. I've never brewed with them, though.

abrix: I think I've seen that book at the LHBS, I'll have to pick it up next time I'm there.

Xpertskir: Awesome! I've only had a few beers from Stillwater (none since moving west). Let me know what you hear!

reed1911: Oh well.

 

[Beernik]

I've put sage, rosemary, and tyme in a Saison and enjoyed it. Epic Brewing has a sage Saison too.

 

[peterj]

I've put sage, rosemary, and tyme in a Saison and enjoyed it. Epic Brewing has a sage Saison too.

No parsley? Then you could call it Saison and Garfunkel.

 

[Beernik]

That's funny.

The parsley died. The rosemary is dead now too.

:-(

 

[benflath]

Heard back from the brewer at Upright (about 10 min after my email). Regarding the quantity of lemongrass, hyssop, Sichuan peppercorns, and sweet and bitter orange peels, he says:

"I split them into two additions in the kettle, one for 45 minutes and another for 5 minutes, split pretty evenly. The orange peel I use about 2 g per gallon, and the rest around .5 - . 75. The Sichuan peppercorns are pretty potent, but the rest is actually mellow and probably hard to go way overboard on."

 

[fuhmon]

thats awesome. i picked a sage leaf this morning from the garden and started thinking about a beer for it. My first impression was Saison without reading anything or knowing there was already commercial saisons with sage.

i think Motueka hop with this lemon lime character would pair well in a saison with some sage.
at least the sage i have smells slightly of mint and citrus , dank and earthy