Saflager S-23

[onthekeg]

IMHO Saflager 34/70 is a MUCH better dry lager yeast.

 

[niko]

Another odd statement that I son't understand, I have gone several generations with S23 in a commercial setting (where consistency is paramount) and had fantastic results.

He has to be doing something wrong, and frankly when people post those meaningless posts it doesn't help new brewers and shy's them away from perfectly good yeast.

 

[wailingguitar]

He has to be doing something wrong, and frankly when people post those meaningless posts it doesn't help new brewers and shy's them away from perfectly good yeast.

I agree completely... The mass of information on the net is both a blessing and a curse...

 

[HopHeadGrady]

I have gone down and my airlock has popped out of my fermenter twice in the last two hrs. I just made a mash extract recipe using Muntons Gold Continental Pilsner (OG 1058) and pitched with a single packet of S23. Its only been in the fermenter 5 hrs. I am fermenting 5gal in a 6.5 gal pail. I used some pilnser malt, cara-pils along with some willamette and hallertauer hops. I tossed some kent golding leaf in for the last 5 min on a whim. I also tossed in another 1.3 kg bucket of muntons lme as my lhbs just got it on Fri.

I let a little water out of the airlock, it was just a little over the max. Maybe that will help.

Its currently sitting at 12C

The saflager s23 is an 11G packet so I am not sure if the OP under pitched. Someone with a better understanding of Lager yeast could chime in. But that volume of such a good yeast should hold it's own in the OPs batch.

I hope my airlock is ok...

 

[jjones17]

He has to be doing something wrong, and frankly when people post those meaningless posts it doesn't help new brewers and shy's them away from perfectly good yeast.

And frankly, meaningless replies are just as misguiding.

In case anyone cares, there are numerous posts on this yeast and the difficulties people have with it. The consensus that I found upon researching is that many have the same, very high ester level results that I have had.

If I AM doing something wrong, I would love to try it again. The savings of dry vs liquid are too big to be ignored. The only problem is, I have tried this yeast 4-5 times and trouble shot the crap out of it. The only variable I have not changed is a different supplier. Perhaps my suppliers yeast handling are no good to this stuff...

I have made almost every style of beer, with very good results brewing all grain. I have painstakingly ironed out all my issues, and when an issue does pop up post ferment - I know exactly what caused it from experience and good note taking. With all my tries on this yeast, all things being equal - the yeast was the only problem. I tried many different variations. Every one of my lagers using various other lager yeasts has been fantastic!

Great to hear from some of the more meaningful posts that others had VERY good results. I am getting optimistic, and may even try this east again. Perhaps on a low gravity quarter batch so I do not need to dump as much... in case things go like they always have for me

 

[DaveGEsq]

Remember, yeast isn't "designed", it is a living organism. Frankly, I don't know how Fermentis came up with the idea that it created esters when fermented cold. The vast majority of the time I have used this yeast, I fermented it around 45... and as I said have gone as low as 35 for for the bulk of fermentation. It made a clean beer every time. I have yet to taste anyone else's beer that was screwed up. I seriously do not know what people are doing to it that makes it act funny. I am actually tempted to experiment and TRY to get it to make "fruit punch" for me.

Maybe the key is to ramp it down slowly from pitching temp to cold, I don't know. Logically, saying that a yeast ferments cleaner at warm temps than cold simply doesn't make sense. Not to say that it can't be clean warm, but realistically it should be cleaner cold. Ehh, whatever... it does exactly what I need it to do, using the methods I use, both at home and in a production setting, why bother futzing with it?

Perhaps "designed" was a poor choice of words. But certainly the yeast is tested and selected for its ability to perform a certain way under very specific conditions. Maybe "selected" is better. Either way, the "manufacturer" has produced "instructions" that recommend a temperature range between 51 and 59. I'm keeping it between the goal posts and we'll see what happens.

 

[HopHeadGrady]

Less than 24 hrs into the fermentation process and my s23 is going absolutely bonkers in the fermenter. It's in my cold storage room at 12C. This is by far the quickest of the three Lager yeasts I have used in this exact same room, exact same process, exact same style of beer (mash extract). I will be curious to see what the end result in. So far, I am very impressed with the quick activity.

I did not make a starter, I never have. Just aerated the crap out of the wort and dry pitched. I let it sit 10 min on the surface and then I gently stirred it into the wort.

Sucks about people having problems with this yeast. So far it gets two thumbs up here.

 

[DaveGEsq]

It's been five full days and fermentation is going strong. The carboy-ambient temp is holding at 50F. Fermentation is steady, though less torpid than 2 days ago. This weekend I will be trying my first liquid yeast (WL 007)! I am going to brew up a starter tonight. If any of y'all have any yeast starter or liquid yeast pitching tips to share, I'm all ears!

 

[DeafSmith]

This weekend I will be trying my first liquid yeast (WL 007)! I am going to brew up a starter tonight. If any of y'all have any yeast starter or liquid yeast pitching tips to share, I'm all ears!

When using the White Labs vials, open the cap very slowly - sometimes pressure builds up in there which will cause the contents to gush out, so just hold the vial upright and crack the cap open just enough to release pressure.

 

[DaveGEsq]

When using the White Labs vials, open the cap very slowly - sometimes pressure builds up in there which will cause the contents to gush out, so just hold the vial upright and crack the cap open just enough to release pressure.

Thanks for the tip. I cleaned and sanitized an old growler, boiled a qt of water, stirred in 1 cup DME, gently boiled for 10 min, cooled, put in growler, shook for 2 min, added ENTIRE yeast vile (had to beat on it to get it all out), shook for another 2 min, sealed with sanitized airlock and we got bubbles this morning! I can't believe it worked!

 

[DeafSmith]

Thanks for the tip. I cleaned and sanitized an old growler, boiled a qt of water, stirred in 1 cup DME, gently boiled for 10 min, cooled, put in growler, shook for 2 min, added ENTIRE yeast vile (had to beat on it to get it all out), shook for another 2 min, sealed with sanitized airlock and we got bubbles this morning! I can't believe it worked!

That was probably a bit too much DME - you want your starter wort to have a gravity of about 1.030-1.040. I use about 4 oz. (by weight) DME per liter of water (I don't know offhand just how much of a cup 4 oz. of DME is). Even though Palmer recommends the same concentration that you used, 1/2 cup DME to 1 pint of water (3rd edition, page 73) and he says that gives a gravity of 1.040, I think that must be wrong. I remember calculating that once and came out with a gravity of over 1.060. Maybe someone else can weigh in on this. At any rate, your starter should still work OK as is.

Another tip for starters - you don't want to seal them with an airlock - the yeast need oxygen to grow - with a starter, you are trying to make yeast, not beer, so you don't care if the beer ends up oxidized. I use a foam stopper in the mouth of my flask, but many people just cover the top with a piece of sanitized alum. foil crimped lightly over the top to allow air into the container. Shake the starter every time you walk by to keep the yeast in suspension as much as possible. When activity dies down, cold crash overnight and discard the beer, pitch only the yeast slurry (you can pitch the whole thing, but I prefer to pitch only the slurry).

 

[DaveGEsq]

I switched to foil, cold crashed, and tried to pitch slurry only. But by the time I dumped the liquid, I had a paste on the bottom of the jar that wouldn't come out! I used distilled water and swished it around to get it out of there. Hope it works...

 

[fxdrider]

I switched to foil, cold crashed, and tried to pitch slurry only. But by the time I dumped the liquid, I had a paste on the bottom of the jar that wouldn't come out! I used distilled water and swished it around to get it out of there. Hope it works...

I wondered about this very same thing. I made a starter with Wyeast 1728 Scottish Ale Yeast yesterday in an Erlenmeyer flask that is bubbling just fine, but having read on Palmer's website the following: -

"One consideration when pitching a large starter is to pour off some of the starter liquid and only pitch the yeast slurry. One recommendation when pitching a large starter is to chill the starter overnight in the refrigerator to flocculate all of the yeast. Then the unpleasant tasting starter beer can be poured off, so only the yeast slurry will be pitched.",

I was wondering just how to get the slurry out of the flask? It seems like the distilled water would certainly work to loosen it up, but I wonder if it doesn't then becoming just the same "unpleasant tasting starter beer" that was just poured off.

 

[DaveGEsq]

I wondered about this very same thing. I made a starter with Wyeast 1728 Scottish Ale Yeast yesterday in an Erlenmeyer flask that is bubbling just fine, but having read on Palmer's website the following: -

"One consideration when pitching a large starter is to pour off some of the starter liquid and only pitch the yeast slurry. One recommendation when pitching a large starter is to chill the starter overnight in the refrigerator to flocculate all of the yeast. Then the unpleasant tasting starter beer can be poured off, so only the yeast slurry will be pitched.",

I was wondering just how to get the slurry out of the flask? It seems like the distilled water would certainly work to loosen it up, but I wonder if it doesn't then becoming just the same "unpleasant tasting starter beer" that was just poured off.

We'll find out. I have pretty vigorous deem this morning (11 hours). Looks good. Smells right. So I guess I worked.

 

[DaveGEsq]

That's "vigorous fermentation". Stupid auto-correct.

 

[HopHeadGrady]

6 days and still bubbling at least once every 20-30 seconds. Egg smell is gone, smells wicked now. Another week and I will take a gravity reading. Its been at 12C. As mentioned above I used it in a mash extract recipe I made with Muntons Continental Pilsner. I can't wait for this.

 

[flabyboy]

6 days and still bubbling at least once every 20-30 seconds. Egg smell is gone, smells wicked now. Another week and I will take a gravity reading. Its been at 12C. As mentioned above I used it in a mash extract recipe I made with Muntons Continental Pilsner. I can't wait for this.

It may be time to do a diacetyl rest.

 

[fxdrider]

We'll find out. I have pretty vigorous deem this morning (11 hours). Looks good. Smells right. So I guess I worked.

Just curious...how much water did you use? I would think you'd only need just enough to loosen the slurry - but I've never done a starter with liquid yeast before, so this is kinda new to me.

 

[DaveGEsq]

Just curious...how much water did you use? I would think you'd only need just enough to loosen the slurry - but I've never done a starter with liquid yeast before, so this is kinda new to me.

I just dumped about 2 cups of water into the growler I used for the starter, put the sanitized lid on, shook the hell out of it, and dumped the whole shebang into my primary, shook the hell out of that, and VOILA!

 

[HopHeadGrady]

It may be time to do a diacetyl rest.

What is this? How is it done? Do I just warm it up?

 

[fxdrider]

I just dumped about 2 cups of water into the growler I used for the starter, put the sanitized lid on, shook the hell out of it, and dumped the whole shebang into my primary, shook the hell out of that, and VOILA!

Cool. Thanks. That's just what I needed to hear!

 

[HopHeadGrady]

Ok now i am concerned about this diacetyl rest stuff..
I just tested my Euro Lager mash extract and it doesn't taste like butter. Been in the bottle nearly two weeks now at 12C after being in the fermenter for a month at 12C.
I did nothing but stick it on the shelf of my cold storage. This used the coopers lager yeast. Turned out nice on bottling day. Nice and clear, 1006 FG. I didn't do any rest. Never heard of it actually before this thread.

Now for this next lager I pitched using s-23. As mentioned I am on day 6 of fermenting and theres still some activity going on.

If I just moved it from 12 to 18C for a couple days, then back into the 12C for a couple more weeks, will that screw it up. I could move the fermentor to my garage which is 2C but I start my cars up out there and dont' want all this crap near my beer.

Am I about to make a Butterball Lager? I basically have 2 temps to play with 12C, 18C

When i bottle it I can put it in the garage in a rubbermaid. Is this ok?

1) Move to 18C for 3-4 days
2) Move back to 12C for a week
3) Bottle
4) Let condition for a week at 70.
5) Lager in garage in rubbermaid container (2 C)

 

[flabyboy]

I just move mine indoors around 64 degrees when I am a few points away from my target FG. I leave there to finish. Then rack to secondary and place it somewhere where it's close to 32 degrees F

If you are using an airlock, you shouldn't have to worry about car fumes. I lager in my garage

 

[DaveGEsq]

I just move mine indoors around 64 degrees when I am a few points away from my target FG. I leave there to finish. Then rack to secondary and place it somewhere where it's close to 32 degrees F

If you are using an airlock, you shouldn't have to worry about car fumes. I lager in my garage

I do basically the same thing. I rack after one week, no matter what. Then I monitor secondary (still at 50ishF) until I'm close to FG. Then leave it in a room in the house that's closer to 65F for 2 days. Then plunge it into lager temps (35ishF).

 

[HopHeadGrady]

Ok, so I am going to rack to a secondary carboy\airlock then and toss er into the garage.
My problem is that I haven't made this recipe before so I am not sure when I will be a few points off.

 

[DaveGEsq]

Ok, so I am going to rack to a secondary carboy\airlock then and toss er into the garage.
My problem is that I haven't made this recipe before so I am not sure when I will be a few points off.

Use iBrewmaster or Beer Smith to estimate your FG for you.

 

[flabyboy]

Ok, so I am going to rack to a secondary carboy\airlock then and toss er into the garage.
My problem is that I haven't made this recipe before so I am not sure when I will be a few points off.

I usually move it indoors when my airlock has slowed down considerably. Most of the off flavors you would get from too high fermentation temps come during the early vigorous stage of fermentation. I would take a sample. If its closes to 1.020, move it indoors

 

[HopHeadGrady]

I managed to get my lager in to the target temp for the diacetyl rest for a couple days.
I was 1018 (from 1054), and now I am 1009. I siphoned to a 23L carboy and it's tucked in the corner of my garage at 0-1C. I am going to leave it there for as long as I can stand... probably a month... It tasted fantastic. The yeast at the bottom was like a very very lite brown colour and was compacted nice. I was able to get a lot of beer out.

Thanks for the tip here guys on the diacetyl rest.

How do you pronounce "diacetyl" BTW?

 

[flabyboy]

Dia-cee-tyl. Glad it worked out for you

 

[DaveGEsq]

How do you pronounce "diacetyl" BTW?

I'm glad it worked! Mine is lagering away. I got a new beer fridge and it will be going in there this weekend. I've heard "diacetyl" pronounced "Di-ass-it-l".