Saflager 34/70

[seabrew8]

Hi Folks, who's using 34/70 these days? It was my favorite yeast when i stopped brewing, 2-3 years ago.

I'm going to make a pale lager next week. Simply; 9# 2-row, 2# Vienna and Hallertau to about 25IBU. 1.5oz 60min + 0.5oz 10min or something.

I was going to use an old fridge and hook up my inkbird and ferment at 54f for about a week and put it in my cool basement after. 60-65f.

However, i just looked over the technical pdf file on the fermentis site and it states, "Ideally at 12-18°C (53.6-64.4°F).

If i not mistaken the old packs used to say, 12-15C.

I just found it interesting, maybe they improved/increased the temp. range?

I might change my approach..

edit: I'm trying to figure out the pitch rate also. Not something i geeked out on before. If i read it correctly its basically 2.8 to 4.5 grams per gallon above 54f fermentation.

I'm going to use about 15g i think for 5 gallons. 1.5 pkg

 

[thehaze]

There is at least one lenghty thread on the forum regarding " warm fermented lagers " which I highly recommending reading. It contains real life experience from brewers that have fermented lagers at room temperature without any issues. I too ferment lagers using W-34/70 and fermenting warm - beer turned out clear and clean every time.

Fermentis still recommends 12- 15°C: SafLager™ W‑34/70 and it works well even at 20°C.

 

[seabrew8]

The TDS actually states 12-18C.

I brewed 34/70 at 65f quite a lot, yeah it works.

 

[csantoni]

I just kegged a Mexican Lager I fermented at 56F with 34/70. First sample tasted pretty good and the fermentation was fast and strong.

 

[soccerdad]

Your approach sounds spot on to me. Right temps, right amount, right yeast.

 

[seabrew8]

I just kegged a Mexican Lager I fermented at 56F with 34/70. First sample tasted pretty good and the fermentation was fast and strong.

View attachment 745802

How long did you ferment for? And did you do a Diacetyl rest?

 

[Miraculix]

3470 is the most forgiving yeast in the world. Just needs time to settle after it finished, that's all.

Throw it into the wort, wait, have beer. That simple. Sure, it is a tad bit cleaner at 12c, but for me, it's not worth the hustle. Just let it ride at room temperature and be done with it.

 

[seabrew8]

3470 is the most forgiving yeast in the world. Just needs time to settle after it finished, that's all.

Throw it into the wort, wait, have beer. That simple. Sure, it is a tad bit cleaner at 12c, but for me, it's not worth the hustle. Just let it ride at room temperature and be done with it.

Hassle is relative. My basement is about 62f now so it would be a hassle to ferment and carry it upstairs in room temp.

 

[Miraculix]

Hassle is relative. My basement is about 62f now so it would be a hassle to ferment and carry it upstairs in room temp.

I guess room temperature is relative.

 

[Miraculix]

Btw. I learned something today. The difference between hassle and hustle.

 

[Drewch]

I've used 34/70 up into the 20s, and to my palate it's cleaner than US-05 in that range. Maybe not crisp, Bavarian, fermented-in-a-cave lager clean, but pretty dang neutral.

 

[csantoni]

How long did you ferment for? And did you do a Diacetyl rest?

5 days primary at 56F, 3 days diacetyl rest at 67F, cold crashed to 40F for 4 days, fined with gelation and into the keg.

I'll probably let it lager a week or two but it's pretty good already.

 

[seabrew8]

5 days primary at 56F, 3 days diacetyl rest at 67F, cold crashed to 40F for 4 days, fined with gelation and into the keg.

I'll probably let it lager a week or two but it's pretty good already.

When did you add the gelatin? How much did you use?

 

[csantoni]

When did you add the gelatin? How much did you use?

After cold crash. I’m still experimenting with the timing of that and wanted to do it on the way down but had to wait so I did it after it was at 40F for a couple days. I use 1g per gallon in 2oz water per gallon. So for this batch, 3 gal, I used 3g gelatin in 6oz water. Process I used was boil water, let cool to room temp, sprinkle gelatin, let bloom 15 mins, heat slowly to 150F, add to beer.

 

[seabrew8]

After cold crash. I’m still experimenting with the timing of that and wanted to do it on the way down but had to wait so I did it after it was at 40F for a couple days. I use 1g per gallon in 2oz water per gallon. So for this batch, 3 gal, I used 3g gelatin in 6oz water. Process I used was boil water, let cool to room temp, sprinkle gelatin, let bloom 15 mins, heat slowly to 150F, add to beer.

I see. I'm going to try 7-8 grams for 5 gals. I will be adding it about 24 hours after i place the carboy in my very cold fridge. 2c or so.

Have you tried biofine clear?

 

[csantoni]

Have you tried biofine clear?

No, only ever used gelatin. My next batch I’ll be trying some Whirlfloc in the kettle. I think my clarity issues are due to lack of a good cold break as gelatin has never been as effective as I’d like it to be. Even time hasn’t always given me the clarity I want. My current pale ale is 6 weeks old, 4 in the keg, and it’s still a bit cloudy.

 

[camonick]

I use 34/70 for almost all my lagers. I pitch 1 packet for 3 gallon batches and 2 for 5 gallons. I don't like to split packages and try to store the leftovers. I pitch dry into the cool wort. Ferment at 54 degrees for 2-3 weeks. Rarely do a diacetyl rest. I have good results with it.

 

[seabrew8]

I use 34/70 for almost all my lagers. I pitch 1 packet for 3 gallon batches and 2 for 5 gallons. I don't like to split packages and try to store the leftovers. I pitch dry into the cool wort. Ferment at 54 degrees for 2-3 weeks. Rarely do a diacetyl rest. I have good results with it.

I will be trying this method next batch.

https://escarpmentlabs.com/blogs/resources/the-forced-diacetyl-test
Its interesting.

 

[camonick]

34/70 is reported to produce little to no diacetyl towards the low end of its temperature range.

 

[Conehead]

I used 3 sachets in my lager. Turned out great, but $9.00 a sachet is too much to pay. Went back to liquid lager yeast with over build.

 

[Steveruch]

I used 3 sachets in my lager. Turned out great, but $9.00 a sachet is too much to pay. Went back to liquid lager yeast with over build.

$9? Where are you?

 

[wepeeler]

I will be trying this method next batch.

https://escarpmentlabs.com/blogs/resources/the-forced-diacetyl-test
Its interesting.

I've tried quite a few of Nick's lagers and they are great. Clean and tasty.

I've only used 34/70 1 time and wasn't a huge fan, but I'm definitely going to give it another shot, now that I have tight temp control.

 

[camonick]

$9? Where are you?

This ^^^
The most I’ve ever paid is $6.50 and Atlantic Brew Supply has it for $5.99.

 

[csantoni]

34/70 is reported to produce little to no diacetyl towards the low end of its temperature range.

I haven't figured it out yet, but something about my process produces more diacetyl than expected. I even get a lot of it in my ales and have to leave them in the primary well beyond FG to ensure it all gets cleaned up. So I always do a diacetyl rest when I'm making a lager, but that's just me.

 

[Miraculix]

I haven't figured it out yet, but something about my process produces more diacetyl than expected. I even get a lot of it in my ales and have to leave them in the primary well beyond FG to ensure it all gets cleaned up. So I always do a diacetyl rest when I'm making a lager, but that's just me.

Maybe you are just extremely sensitive to it? So your friends also taste it in your brews?

 

[csantoni]

Maybe you are just extremely sensitive to it? So your friends also taste it in your brews?

I'm definitely very sensitive to it. I've never shared anything that I thought still had any traces of diacetyl so I can't say whether others can detect it.

I stewarded at a competition this summer and the judges at my table didn't detect the diacetyl in a couple of the beers until I mentioned it. To me it was obvious. So I know I'm really sensitive to it but I won't enjoy my brews if I can taste it. I'm working on getting clearer wort into the fermentor. I think my lack of a good cold break may be a factor in more "gunk" getting into the fermentor and carrying more precursors with it. I'm still investigating.

 

[camonick]

I'm definitely very sensitive to it. I've never shared anything that I thought still had any traces of diacetyl so I can't say whether others can detect it.

I stewarded at a competition this summer and the judges at my table didn't detect the diacetyl in a couple of the beers until I mentioned it. To me it was obvious. So I know I'm really sensitive to it but I won't enjoy my brews if I can taste it. I'm working on getting clearer wort into the fermentor. I think my lack of a good cold break may be a factor in more "gunk" getting into the fermentor and carrying more precursors with it. I'm still investigating.

If you’re that sensitive to it, it might be a challenge to eliminate it to levels you can’t detect. I recently had a Pilsner and Schwarzbier judged and diacetyl wasn’t mentioned in the comments of either beer. Both were fermented with 34/70 using the method I mentioned above. I will add, I do use gelatin when I keg.

 

[Miraculix]

I'm definitely very sensitive to it. I've never shared anything that I thought still had any traces of diacetyl so I can't say whether others can detect it.

I stewarded at a competition this summer and the judges at my table didn't detect the diacetyl in a couple of the beers until I mentioned it. To me it was obvious. So I know I'm really sensitive to it but I won't enjoy my brews if I can taste it. I'm working on getting clearer wort into the fermentor. I think my lack of a good cold break may be a factor in more "gunk" getting into the fermentor and carrying more precursors with it. I'm still investigating.

I do not think that there is any connection between trub and diacetyl production. I would expect it to be the other way around, the more trub, the less unwanted byproducts as the trub contains nutrients that feed the yeast.

You can try incorporating 5-10% oats in your beers, I know that oats provide some fatty acids that are essentially underrepresented within barley only wort, which make for a healthier ferment. I am not sure that diacethyl production will be limited by this, but other unwanted byproducts will be limited would not surprise me if diacetyl would also be lowered by oat additions.

You can read more about this topic on scott janish's blog.

 

[monkeymath]

I'm definitely very sensitive to it. I've never shared anything that I thought still had any traces of diacetyl so I can't say whether others can detect it.

I stewarded at a competition this summer and the judges at my table didn't detect the diacetyl in a couple of the beers until I mentioned it. To me it was obvious. So I know I'm really sensitive to it but I won't enjoy my brews if I can taste it. I'm working on getting clearer wort into the fermentor. I think my lack of a good cold break may be a factor in more "gunk" getting into the fermentor and carrying more precursors with it. I'm still investigating.

Are you certain that it is in fact diacetyl when you think you're tasting diacetyl?

I'm asking because truly tasting something and connecting it to a memory and a specific substance is actually pretty hard. Homebrewers and beer geeks often love to use a very precise vocabulary when it comes to these things, but I think only few actually have the capability to attribute these things so directly.

I know I certainly don't. I have five tiny bottles of essential oils of different herbs and from time to time I smell each blindly and try to guess which is which. Even with this tiny sample size and my growing experience with it, it is terribly difficult.

 

[Miraculix]

Are you certain that it is in fact diacetyl when you think you're tasting diacetyl?

I'm asking because truly tasting something and connecting it to a memory and a specific substance is actually pretty hard. Homebrewers and beer geeks often love to use a very precise vocabulary when it comes to these things, but I think only few actually have the capability to attribute these things so directly.

I know I certainly don't. I have five tiny bottles of essential oils of different herbs and from time to time I smell each blindly and try to guess which is which. Even with this tiny sample size and my growing experience with it, it is terribly difficult.

You have to dilute them in a way or you have to spread a tiny amount on the surface of something to let it evapurate. Directly from the bottle, it is just too much for the nose to handle correctly. I know because I also was testing this with some esential oils and first I was blown away that all of them smell kind of the same... they did not after I rubbed a tiny bit of it betwenn my fingers and waited a bit for it to evapurate. Then suddenly, all the differences were there.