Safale BE 134 review

[Dland]

I was in the 60's F(18-20C), I wonder if that had anything to do with the clove, which showed up before the sour. I think it is sour anyway, something different. In the last several years the only ale yeast I've used before was US-05. Mostly I do lagers.

 

[Miraculix]

I was in the 60's F(18-20C), I wonder if that had anything to do with the clove, which showed up before the sour. I think it is sour anyway, something different. In the last several years the only ale yeast I've used before was US-05. Mostly I do lagers.

No, it probably doesn't. If a beer with a non souring non clovey yeast turns sour and clovey, than there is something else inside.

A lot of wild Yeasts produce clove and other bugs can easily sour the beer, what you got there are classic signs for an infection mate.

 

[snarf7]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I'm not going to sweat it at all then, I'll just leave it at room temp and it should be fine. It was really really hot here last week so room temp was up as high as 74, now its cooled down to where room temp is around 70

 

[Dland]

No, it probably doesn't. If a beer with a non souring non clovey yeast turns sour and clovey

Was always clovey, taste a bit of the trub dumps (after cold crashing them).

Am drinking some now from keg.. it is not what I'm used too, but actually tasting less sour by the day..clove and pepper prominent ..but good

I did just recently read a long article on wheat beers linked on this forum, and clove was associated with lower temp fermentation.

Tastes good, reminds me on the first wheat beer I ever had, I think it was "two sheafs" red wheat, in a early brew pub in Perth, around 1990.

Grain bill does contain 10% wheat malt, 15% rye malt, with 50% viking pils, & 25% MO.

Not that my system is immune to infections, so who knows.

 

[Dland]

The souring sounds like an infection to me, especially with the clove. My 134 beer wasn't sour at all and had zero clove... Sounds like you caught some wild stuff!

I believe you are correct, due to fact next batch using US-05 turned up infected and whatever it is survived the regular hot PBW & starsan pump though and soak. Not sure where it came from if not the yeast. Hopefully the breakdown and idophor soak got it.

Anyone know what agent makes clove flavor specifically?

I am a little confused however, as I am lead to believe that BE-134 has some super attenuating agent by others' finish gravities. And others have said it may have an intentional bret or something in it.

I'm loosing most of the sour from the two batches of 134 as it cold conditions, but the clove is pronounced, even if not off putting. I'm sure I'll drink it all, but would not have intentionally made 20 gallons of it.

 

[dmtaylor]

Anyone know what agent makes clove flavor specifically?

Purely genetics. Most commercial yeasts are negative for "phenolic off flavor" which is called POF-. Most wild yeasts and many Belgian and German ale strains on the other hand are POF+. You either have remnants from a previous Belgian or German ale batch in your system, or you have contamination by wild yeast.

 

[Dland]

Thanks for your reply. Last brews I made before the two 134 batches were lagers. So it was either the 134 or contamination I guess.

Ninoid and Miraculix report no clove, so unless the BE-134 on the other side of ocean is a different mix, probably contamination.

 

[dmtaylor]

I've never used BE-134 myself, but have heard such varying reports on it that I'm not sure whether it's POF+ or not.

 

[Ninoid]

Wash fermenter with hot water and then sprayed the OXI solution and let it dry in the air. I did this after the infection and I no longer had any problems.

 

[snarf7]

Wow, talk about attenuation...FG came it at 1006. I'm pretty sure it wrapped up in 4-5 days too, but i dind't have time to get to it until the weekend, this is for a belgian ale, see how it turns out

 

[Dland]

Follow up post: Now my two batches of 134 saison have matured and have been cold crashed a while, they have become drinkable. I have friends who like them a lot. I will drink a pint during the evening, but don't find myself inclined to have a few in a row the way I would other of my brews. Just a little too clovey for me.

The first batch, which was direct pitched from packet, and worked more vigorously, has a decidedly stronger clove taste than the second one, witch was put on yeast cake of first batch. The second batch also worked out at slower speed, more like a normal ale yeast.

 

[filthyastronaut]

Made a Belgian Pale Ale with this yeast after brewing a Belgian Pale with New Belgium that used it. The NB one was fantastic, appropriate for the style with restrained esters and phenols. Mine was more like an amber saison. Not bad, but not what I was going for. I think it is likely that NB fermented the yeast bellow 70 degrees, while I did my usual start in the mid-sixties and then free rise up to 80. There was a lot of clove in mine, no sourness, and I am don't believe the phenols were due to being infected. The NB beer had them too, just less. Much less.

 

[Ninoid]

I started drinking my new Saison fermented with Mangrove Jack M29 around 32'C. The taste and sweetness of the banana is quite pronounced, much more so than with the BE-134. This just confirmed to me that the BE-134 is more similar to the US-05 than the real Saison yeast. It suits me better that I have yeast with which to make beers in the summer that I normally make with US-05. In my experience the difference is that it will be drier (lower FG).

 

[couchsending]

I started drinking my new Saison fermented with Mangrove Jack M29 around 32'C. The taste and sweetness of the banana is quite pronounced, much more so than with the BE-134. This just confirmed to me that the BE-134 is more similar to the US-05 than the real Saison yeast. It suits me better that I have yeast with which to make beers in the summer that I normally make with US-05. In my experience the difference is that it will be drier (lower FG).

Have you tried BE-256... according to Fermentis it has less esters and very similar higher alcohols to US-05, is non diastaticus, and floccs much better and ferments faster. Seems like a dried version of Wyeast 1762 or WLP540. A “Belgian” yeast thats actually genetically an english yeast that’s POF-.

 

[Ninoid]

Have you tried BE-256... according to Fermentis it has less esters and very similar higher alcohols to US-05, is non diastaticus, and floccs much better and ferments faster. Seems like a dried version of Wyeast 1762 or WLP540. A “Belgian” yeast thats actually genetically an english yeast that’s POF-.

I haven’t tried it, but that yeast has a lower fermentation temperature so I could only try it in the winter. It can't replace my BE-134, which works well over 30'C in the summer.

 

[Dland]

Follow up post: This beer is clear, crisp and good. It has mellowed a bit with age, but is still more clove forward than ideal, in my opinion. SG 1.007

 

[Protos]

I read this thread carefully as I too was making a choice between the two yeasts. Finally, I did several batches with both.
Now I definitely prefer Mangrove Jack's version to Fermentis. In my experience, M29 gives beer noticeably more characteristic saisonal yeast flavours than BE-134, which is quite neutral comparing to M29. From now on, my dry yeast of choice for saisons is M29.
I can't say which is better. It all depends of your tastes and what exactly you want to brew. If you want a maltier, "funkier" version of Saison, use M29. If you're after a cleaner neutral thirst-quencher (and especially if your recipe contains some wheat), use BE-134.

 

[Ninoid]

I read this thread carefully as I too was making a choice between the two yeasts. Finally, I did several batches with both.
Now I definitely prefer Mangrove Jack's version to Fermentis. In my experience, M29 gives beer noticeably more characteristic saisonal yeast flavours than BE-134, which is quite neutral comparing to M29. From now on, my dry yeast of choice for saisons is M29.
I can't say which is better. It all depends of your tastes and what exactly you want to brew. If you want a maltier, "funkier" version of Saison, use M29. If you're after a cleaner neutral thirst-quencher (and especially if your recipe contains some wheat), use BE-134.

This is my experience as well.
For Saison I prefer the M29, but I use the BE-134 more for all other styles in the summer. However, the M29 can also give a clean taste if you overpitch. I made some Belgian Pale and Blonde Ale with washed M29 yeast and they were pretty clean in taste.

 

[Dave Sarber]

I've never used BE-134 myself, but have heard such varying reports on it that I'm not sure whether it's POF+ or not.

Yes it is POF+. Go to Fermentis website.

 

[rhys333]

This August I used BE-134 for the first time in a saison. It's giving me exactly what I wanted: first spice, then citrus plus a subtle Belgian background note.

It's showing a lot of character in a simple pils/vienna beer, so definitely not neutral for me as others have reported. Keeping in mind that I included 12% jaggery raw Indian sugar in my fermentables. Whether that added anything I can't be sure. Also, this yeast is nothing at all like Belle/3711, which I really don't care for. I'd have to call BE-134 the best saison yeast I've found to-date.

 

[thehaze]

This August I used BE-134 for the first time in a saison. It's giving me exactly what I wanted: first spice, then citrus plus a subtle Belgian background note.

It's showing a lot of character in a simple pils/vienna beer, so definitely not neutral for me as others have reported. Keeping in mind that I included 12% jaggery raw Indian sugar in my fermentables. Whether that added anything I can't be sure. Also, this yeast is nothing at all like Belle/3711, which I really don't care for. I'd have to call BE-134 the best saison yeast I've found to-date.

Glad to hear you liked the yeast. Would it be possible to tell us a bit about the recipe, malt bill, hops, pitch rate, fermentation temperature, or if you did anything special/different with this yeast? Are the phenolics of the yeast comparable with the profile found in commercial saisons, like Dupont? Some diastaticus yeast showcase a more or less, medicinal, sort of aroma and flavour, which I do not care for...

 

[rhys333]

Glad to hear you liked the yeast. Would it be possible to tell us a bit about the recipe, malt bill, hops, pitch rate, fermentation temperature, or if you did anything special/different with this yeast? Are the phenolics of the yeast comparable with the profile found in commercial saisons, like Dupont? Some diastaticus yeast showcase a more or less, medicinal, sort of aroma and flavour, which I do not care for...

I wouldn't compare this with Saison Dupont, as I designed it around on-hand ingredients. I used American hops too, but kept them relatively restrained. I'd say the phenolics are balanced with peppery spice being the first thing I notice. Definitely no medicinal aroma or flavor. I fermented at room temperature, around 78F. It's stronger than I planned due to higher than expected brewing efficiency and 98% attenuation, but it really works in this beer. Everything just seems to be in balance. Here's the recipe:

JAGGERY SAISON
5.5 US gal., 1.052 - 1.001, 34 IBU
75.5% Pilsen
12% Jaggery @ 60
7.5% Vienna
5% Flaked barley
20g Chinook @ 60 (23 IBU)
20g Cascade @ 30
30g Willamette @ 2
BE-134 yeast (11.5g packet)
Water: Ca:40, Cl:50, SO4:60

 

[Ninoid]

I try BE-134, M29 and Lallemand Belle Saison and think that and I think this last one is the best.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I try BE-134, M29 and Lallemand Belle Saison and think that and I think this last one is the best.

Well M29 is just repacked Belle....

It's probably a reminder for anyone interested in different saison yeasts to read this :
https://www.maltosefalcons.com/blogs/brewing-techniques-tips/a-guide-to-saisons-and-saison-yeasts

 

[rhys333]

Well M29 is just repacked Belle....

It's probably a reminder for anyone interested in different saison yeasts to read this :
https://www.maltosefalcons.com/blogs/brewing-techniques-tips/a-guide-to-saisons-and-saison-yeasts

I find that 3711 is very close to Belle as well.

The article recommends open fermentation as a way to prevent the dreaded WY 3724 stall. This didn't work for me, but I noticed that fermentation only stalls with gen-1 yeast. Gen-2 onward, the harvested slurry ferments quickly and without stalling. I've never been able to get reliable saison character from it though, which is why I'm happy now after trying BE-134. I'm looking forward to seeing how the gen-2 slurry performs.

 

[Ninoid]

To me, the beers from Belle don't taste the same as from M29. M29 has a stronger clove flavor to me, while Belle is cleaner.