S23 or S34/70

[mblanks2]

If brewing a noble style pilsner and using one of the above mentioned strains which would you prefer.
I prefer dry, hoppy and clear.
Thoughts please.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

My opinion:

34/70 = light crisp and dry.
S23 = more character, but can get a little fruity.

Both make a fine pilsner.

 

[Denny]

I have used S23 several times with terrible results. You couldn't pay me to use it again.

 

[osagedr]

I have used S23 several times with terrible results. You couldn't pay me to use it again.

LOL Denny hates the S-23. I've used it a number of times with (what I consider to be) good results, including BOS for a boh pils in a comp with over 350 entries. Having said that, my favourite strain is W-34/70 (though I'm about to use 1450 for the first time ).

There's no such thing as a noble style pilsner.

If you can ferment quite cool (48 or lower) then I like 34/70. S-23, if you pitch enough (1.5 million cells per ml per degree Plato), will handle the cold (48-ish), but not like 34/70. S-23 should be warmed up once the krausen falls to help it finish off strong IMO.

If you are going to ferment warm (low to high 50s) then S-23 should be okay. I've gone both cold and warm with it and had decent results, at least IMO.

Good luck!

 

[Denny]

LOL Denny hates the S-23. I've used it a number of times with (what I consider to be) good results, including BOS for a boh pils in a comp with over 350 entries. Having said that, my favourite strain is W-34/70 (though I'm about to use 1450 for the first time ).

There's no such thing as a noble style pilsner.

If you can ferment quite cool (48 or lower) then I like 34/70. S-23, if you pitch enough (1.5 million cells per ml per degree Plato), will handle the cold (48-ish), but not like 34/70. S-23 should be warmed up once the krausen falls to help it finish off strong IMO.

If you are going to ferment warm (low to high 50s) then S-23 should be okay. I've gone both cold and warm with it and had decent results, at least IMO.

Good luck!

I've fermented S23 from 45-65F and never gotten a decent beer out of it. But I know people who've made great beers from it, but I'm not one of them.

 

[mblanks2]

There's no such thing as a noble style pilsner.

What I meant by this is that I plan on brewing a Samuel Adams Noble Pils clone type recipe.

34/70 = light crisp and dry.

This would be what I am looking for.

If you can ferment quite cool (48 or lower) then I like 34/70.

Fermenting at 48* is not a problem as I have a fermentation chamber that will handle 10 gallons at a time and then have equally sized lagering capability plus an additional 60 gallon capacity for lagering in another unit.

I may just do a split batch to compare. Additional experienced input would be great though. I am not married to the idea of a split batch.

 

[wailingguitar]

I am sure 34/70 will do the job for OP quite nicely, would be a good choice.

That being said I am constantly perplexed by people saying that they have had mediocre to horrible results with S23. I have brewed everything form Bo Pilsner to Doppelbocks with it and have never had less that excellent results. I find it works best when ramping the temp down slowly, say starting about 60F and going down a few degrees per day. When making my Bo Pils I actually got it down below 40F during primary, it took a few days to get there, and took longer to ferment, but the results were amazing.

 

[Randy_Bugger]

One man's good beer is another man's drain pour.

 

[BradleyBrew]

I agree S23 is nasty... 34/70 worked good even with a high gravity "The Kaiser" Clone.

 

[osagedr]

I've fermented S23 from 45-65F and never gotten a decent beer out of it. But I know people who've made great beers from it, but I'm not one of them.

If you BELIEVE you can make a decent beer from it...you will

 

[Denny]

If you BELIEVE you can make a decent beer from it...you will

If only it was that easy....

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I've only done a few lagers, but the two done with W-34/70 came out beautifully, and the one with S-23 had a somewhat offputting "sharp" flavor that I didn't care for. A fellow brewer who I split the batch with as part of a collaboration liked it, though. Perhaps it's just an individual thing?

 

[RCCOLA]

I've made a lot of good lagers with W34/70. It is forgiving of temps and will make a fine steam beer at 62F with little to no esters.

I fermented a series of beers with S23 awhile back. Fermented from 50F to 58F. It has a certain fruitiness to it that can be aged or gelled out. I've heard it is actually a Kolsch strain but have no proof of that statement. It made some pretty good American pilsners and a fair BoPils. Came out really good on my house lager--similar to Modelo Especial.

If I had to choose between the 2, it would be W34/70 hands down. It's way easier to make a good lager with it than with S23.

 

[guyco]

I agree S23 is nasty... 34/70 worked good even with a high gravity "The Kaiser" Clone.

Used S 34/70 for a Pilsner Urquell clone and it was great, light and crisp. I used S 23 on the same recipe and it came out tasting like juicy fruit gum.....won't do that again.