Rye or Rye?

[WayFrae]

I am wanting to brew a Rye APA or a Rye IPA soon. So my question is should I used flaked rye or rye malt? Is there much difference between the two? I am wanting something similar to Payette Brewing's Rodeo RyePA. They say on their website that they use only Citra hops. They are a brewery in Idaho so I don't know how many of you have tried it.

 

[Barley_Bob]

I'm interested to hear the answer too. All I can add is that I did a Rye IPA that was 30% malted rye, and it turned out most excellent.

 

[haberdasher]

I love malted rye in excess of 20% of the grainbill.

I've brewed Denny Conn's Wry Smile Rye IPA 5 times now and it is so flawless.

 

[YellowRiver]

Ive had the Rodeo RyePA and though I like it, mostly, I'm too new at brewing to help with a recipe. I don't particularly like the fact that the Rodeo RyePA is a 4% beer but that's my only knock on it, very light in color but nicely balanced with the Citra hops.

I have used Rye malt in the both Terrapin Rye and the Denny Conn's Wry Smile beers I have brewed(both turned out great).

 

[jmccraney]

Cool to hear love for payette. I've got family out there, but haven't had that one myself. Yes, malted rye is what you're looking for. The differences will be similar to malted wheat vs flaked wheat.

 

[WayFrae]

Ive had the Rodeo RyePA and though I like it, mostly, I'm too new at brewing to help with a recipe. I don't particularly like the fact that the Rodeo RyePA is a 4% beer but that's my only knock on it, very light in color but nicely balanced with the Citra hops.

I have used Rye malt in the both Terrapin Rye and the Denny Conn's Wry Smile beers I have brewed(both turned out great).

Yeah, I want to brew something similar. Not necessarily a clone. I am thinking around 5-6% ABV. It looks like I will use rye malt! Thanks for your input!

 

[WayFrae]

So this is the recipe I came up with. I have no idea if it will be close to Rodeo but like I said, I am not looking to clone it, just using it as inspiration.

Batch size: 5.5 gal
All Grain BIAB
Est OG: 1.058
Mash @ 151°F for 90 min
Yeast: Wyeast 1056 or 1272
Grain:
9 lbs 2-row
2.5 lbs rye malt
1 lbs White Wheat Malt
0.5 lbs Caramel 40L

Hops:
.25 oz Citra 60 min
.25 oz Citra 20 min
.50 oz Citra 15 min
.50 oz Citra 10 min
.50 oz Citra 5 min
2 oz Citra Hop Stand @ 175°F for 30 min
2 oz Citra Dry Hop for 5 days

Let me know what you all think.

 

[DanPoch]

I've never worked with flaked rye but I've used malted rye as 20% of the grain bill in my house brew (which I've made 3 years in a row). I can't speak to the flaked, but malted is not too hard to use. Stuck mashes can be difficult, but I suppose that would be true for flaked as well. You could make the recipe twice, once with each type and see which works best with your set-up.

 

[chickypad]

I've heard that flaked rye gives a sharper rye flavor than malted, similar to what flaked wheat is supposed to do. I'm not sure I can perceive that difference, but I've only used it to sub in a portion of the rye a recipe calls for (e.g. 15% rye malt/5 % flaked or 10%/10%), and I've never done a head to head comparison with the same recipe. Your recipe looks pretty good to me, a citra bomb for sure. What are the IBU's?

 

[WayFrae]

I've heard that flaked rye gives a sharper rye flavor than malted, similar to what flaked wheat is supposed to do. I'm not sure I can perceive that difference, but I've only used it to sub in a portion of the rye a recipe calls for (e.g. 15% rye malt/5 % flaked or 10%/10%), and I've never done a head to head comparison with the same recipe. Your recipe looks pretty good to me, a citra bomb for sure. What are the IBU's?

BeerSmith calculates the IBUs at 66.4

 

[eric19312]

You could use the malt bill from Denny Conn's Wry Smile. Actually you could just brew that beer as close to the recipe as possible then again with Citra to see if you like it better with Citra. Best HBT recipe period.

 

[WayFrae]

So the LHBS made the decision easy. They were out of rye malt so I used flaked rye instead. This is the recipe I went with:

11 lbs Pale 2-row
2 lbs flaked rye
0.5 lbs Caramel 60L

Mashed at 151°F for 90 min

.25 oz Citra 60 min
.25 oz Citra 20 min
.50 oz Citra 15 min
.50 oz Citra 10 min
.50 oz Citra 5 min
2 oz Citra Hop Stand @ 175 for 30 min
Dry hop will be 2-4 oz Citra for 5-7 days

I pitched a yeast cake of Wyeast 1272

OG: 1.064

 

[DanPoch]

Looks like a good one. Keep us posted with how it comes out.
Cheers!

 

[WayFrae]

So I am too impatient and tried this after only being in the bottle for a week. I really enjoy this beer. It should be even better in another week or two. Next time I think I will use 3 lbs of rye and drop the caramel. I am discovering that I don't much care for caramel malts in my pale ales.

 

[bzwyatt]

I used 3 lbs flaked rye in a rye IPA I made. I think I had 12 lbs, maybe 15, of barley malt. I felt it could have used more rye.

Glad to tastes good, hope the next batch is even better.

 

[WayFrae]

Alright, time for another update. I really enjoy this beer. I feel like the hop schedule is spot on for flavor and bitterness but I really can't taste the rye. So, I am brewing this on Thursday with this tweaked recipe:

Grain Bill:
10 lbs Pale 2-row 66.7%
3 lbs Rye Malt 20%
2 lbs Flaked Rye 13.3%

Mash at 151°F for 90 min

Same Hop Schedule as before:
.25 oz Citra 60 min
.25 oz Citra 20 min
.50 oz Citra 15 min
.50 oz Citra 10 min
.50 oz Citra 5 min
2 oz Citra Hop Stand @ 175 for 30 min
4 oz Citra Dry Hop for 5 days

Pitch yeast cake of Wyeast 1272

I am hoping that using the rye malt and the flaked rye will bring out the rye character more than the flaked rye alone. This makes 33.3% of the grain bill rye. I also dropped the Caramel 60 to hopefully bring out more of the rye flavor.

 

[DarthCitra]

Alright, time for another update. I really enjoy this beer. I feel like the hop schedule is spot on for flavor and bitterness but I really can't taste the rye. So, I am brewing this on Thursday with this tweaked recipe:

Grain Bill:
10 lbs Pale 2-row 66.7%
3 lbs Rye Malt 20%
2 lbs Flaked Rye 13.3%

Mash at 151°F for 90 min

Same Hop Schedule as before:
.25 oz Citra 60 min
.25 oz Citra 20 min
.50 oz Citra 15 min
.50 oz Citra 10 min
.50 oz Citra 5 min
2 oz Citra Hop Stand @ 175 for 30 min
4 oz Citra Dry Hop for 5 days

Pitch yeast cake of Wyeast 1272

I am hoping that using the rye malt and the flaked rye will bring out the rye character more than the flaked rye alone. This makes 33.3% of the grain bill rye. I also dropped the Caramel 60 to hopefully bring out more of the rye flavor.

Approved! I find caramel malts can get in the way of what im trying to have center stage. I usually go no more than 7% of the grainbill and still not exactly what i was shooting for. Im going to have to order Rye malt and try a recipe out, really have enjoyed every rye ipa ive had!

How much of a punch in the nose is that 4oz dry hop? I used 4 oz of citra and it was awesome, just dissipated in less than 4 weeks.

 

[WayFrae]

Approved! I find caramel malts can get in the way of what im trying to have center stage. I usually go no more than 7% of the grainbill and still not exactly what i was shooting for. Im going to have to order Rye malt and try a recipe out, really have enjoyed every rye ipa ive had!

How much of a punch in the nose is that 4oz dry hop? I used 4 oz of citra and it was awesome, just dissipated in less than 4 weeks.

It is glorious. I love it. You will find out soon! :rockin: I am hoping it doesn't fade too quickly. My 2 oz dry hop aroma in the double IPA I brewed is pretty much non existent now so I think I am going to do at least 4 oz from now on. I have been doing some researching and some people recommend 1.5 oz per gallon for a longer lasting dry hop aroma.

The main thing I am disappointed with on this brew is that the rye flavor didn't really come through.

 

[DarthCitra]

It is glorious. I love it. You will find out soon! :rockin: I am hoping it doesn't fade too quickly. My 2 oz dry hop aroma in the double IPA I brewed is pretty much non existent now so I think I am going to do at least 4 oz from now on. I have been doing some researching and some people recommend 1.5 oz per gallon for a longer lasting dry hop aroma.

The main thing I am disappointed with on this brew is that the rye flavor didn't really come through.

damn, 1.5/gallon? I dont know if i could afford 7.5oz as just dry hop, maybe when hops are on sale!


I look forward to seeing how the rye is and give me some inspiration!

 

[WayFrae]

damn, 1.5/gallon? I dont know if i could afford 7.5oz as just dry hop, maybe when hops are on sale!


I look forward to seeing how the rye is and give me some inspiration!

I know it would be one expensive dry hop!

 

[WayFrae]

Alright, so this is what the recipe ended up being:

Grain Bill:
8 lbs Pale 2-row
2 lbs Rye Malt
2 lbs Flaked Rye
0.5 lbs Crystal 60L

Mashed at 151°F for 90 min

Same Hop Schedule as before:
.25 oz Citra 60 min
.25 oz Citra 20 min
.50 oz Citra 15 min
.50 oz Citra 10 min
.50 oz Citra 5 min
2 oz Citra Hop Stand @ 175 for 30 min
4 oz Citra Dry Hop for 5 days

Pitch yeast cake of Wyeast 1272

So I decided after talking with the LHBS guy that I would leave the caramel malt in since I liked the last beer so much and after comparing the new recipe with the old one I lowered the 2-row a bit to keep the same gravity. The gravity ended up at 1.065. Something came up at the end of the brew day and I didn't have time to filter the hot/cold break or hops material out of the wort so I just dumped the entire contents of the kettle into my carboy. Hopefully that wasn't a mistake. Anyways, I will keep you guys updated as to how this version turns out.

 

[DarthCitra]

Alright, so this is what the recipe ended up being:

Grain Bill:
8 lbs Pale 2-row
2 lbs Rye Malt
2 lbs Flaked Rye
0.5 lbs Crystal 60L

Mashed at 151°F for 90 min

Same Hop Schedule as before:
.25 oz Citra 60 min
.25 oz Citra 20 min
.50 oz Citra 15 min
.50 oz Citra 10 min
.50 oz Citra 5 min
2 oz Citra Hop Stand @ 175 for 30 min
4 oz Citra Dry Hop for 5 days

Pitch yeast cake of Wyeast 1272

So I decided after talking with the LHBS guy that I would leave the caramel malt in since I liked the last beer so much and after comparing the new recipe with the old one I lowered the 2-row a bit to keep the same gravity. The gravity ended up at 1.065. Something came up at the end of the brew day and I didn't have time to filter the hot/cold break or hops material out of the wort so I just dumped the entire contents of the kettle into my carboy. Hopefully that wasn't a mistake. Anyways, I will keep you guys updated as to how this version turns out.

The cold break and hop material should drop out in your fermenter just fine. You might lose a little more to trub than normal, but shouldnt effect flavor. Im looking forward to hearing how it turns out!

 

[WayFrae]

So I haven't had the time to brew and hang out on the forums as much as I used to so sorry to leave you guys hanging! This version turned out even better than the last version. It is easily the best beer I have brewed, it is delicious. In fact, I am brewing it tomorrow using the exact recipe as above. I don't know if I mentioned the water before...I use distilled water and build it up from there. My target profile was 300 sulfate. I don't remember the chloride number. I had all my notes in my Beersmith app but then I had to get a new phone. I will be taking notes with pen and paper from now on.

 

[DarthCitra]

So I haven't had the time to brew and hang out on the forums as much as I used to so sorry to leave you guys hanging! This version turned out even better than the last version. It is easily the best beer I have brewed, it is delicious. In fact, I am brewing it tomorrow using the exact recipe as above. I don't know if I mentioned the water before...I use distilled water and build it up from there. My target profile was 300 sulfate. I don't remember the chloride number. I had all my notes in my Beersmith app but then I had to get a new phone. I will be taking notes with pen and paper from now on.

I look forward to seeing how it turns out with the recipe above! I havent brewed in quite awhile since my daughter came 5 weeks ago. I still check up on here and been wondering where you been at brotha!

 

[johnmac22]

I love Payette...luckily I live right down the road from the brewery! I came up with this as my attempt to clone. I have no idea if it's close or not.

8.5 lb United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale 38 3.75 68%
2 lb American - Rye Malt 38 3.5 16%
1 lb American - Munich - Light 10L 33 10 8%
0.5 lb American - Caramel / Crystal 20L 35 20 4%
0.5 lb Rice Hulls

0.75 oz Columbus Pellet 13.2 Boil 60 min 35.8
1 oz Citra Leaf/Whole 12.5 Boil 20 min 24.88
1 oz Citra Leaf/Whole 12.5 Boil 10 min 14.9
1 oz Citra Leaf/Whole 12.5 Boil 0 min
4 oz Citra Leaf/Whole 12.5 Dry Hop 5 days
0.25 oz Columbus Pellet 13.2 Dry Hop 5 days

 

[WayFrae]

I look forward to seeing how it turns out with the recipe above! I havent brewed in quite awhile since my daughter came 5 weeks ago. I still check up on here and been wondering where you been at brotha!

Congrats on the daughter man! I feel so guilty that I haven't sent you a beer like I told you I would. I am a bad e-friend haha. Life has been so hectic for me working on the new house and such.

 

[WayFrae]

I love Payette...luckily I live right down the road from the brewery! I came up with this as my attempt to clone. I have no idea if it's close or not.

8.5 lb United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale 38 3.75 68%
2 lb American - Rye Malt 38 3.5 16%
1 lb American - Munich - Light 10L 33 10 8%
0.5 lb American - Caramel / Crystal 20L 35 20 4%
0.5 lb Rice Hulls

0.75 oz Columbus Pellet 13.2 Boil 60 min 35.8
1 oz Citra Leaf/Whole 12.5 Boil 20 min 24.88
1 oz Citra Leaf/Whole 12.5 Boil 10 min 14.9
1 oz Citra Leaf/Whole 12.5 Boil 0 min
4 oz Citra Leaf/Whole 12.5 Dry Hop 5 days
0.25 oz Columbus Pellet 13.2 Dry Hop 5 days

This seems like it would be pretty close. I don't think it would have enough rye though. My first attempt to make a Rodeo-inspired beer used only 16% flaked rye an it was a little lackluster in the rye flavor. When I added the same amount of rye malt and flaked rye it has a much sharper flavor that I like. Also, the 300 ppm sulfate water helps a lot in bringing out the hops flavor.

Honestly, my recipe has similar flavors but I don't consider it a clone. My recipe comes out around 7% but the hops aroma and flavor are spot on. It uses 64% Pale 2-Row, 16% Flaked Rye, 16% Rye Malt, and 4% Caramel 60L.

 

[johnmac22]

This seems like it would be pretty close. I don't think it would have enough rye though. My first attempt to make a Rodeo-inspired beer used only 16% flaked rye an it was a little lackluster in the rye flavor. When I added the same amount of rye malt and flaked rye it has a much sharper flavor that I like. Also, the 300 ppm sulfate water helps a lot in bringing out the hops flavor.

Honestly, my recipe has similar flavors but I don't consider it a clone. My recipe comes out around 7% but the hops aroma and flavor are spot on. It uses 64% Pale 2-Row, 16% Flaked Rye, 16% Rye Malt, and 4% Caramel 60L.

I would have liked to used Magnum to bitter but I was out at that time. I don't know much about flaked rye so I cant really speak to that but I want to give this another go and am interested in your recipe. What do you think could be changed about yours to make it closer?

 

[WayFrae]

I would have liked to used Magnum to bitter but I was out at that time. I don't know much about flaked rye so I cant really speak to that but I want to give this another go and am interested in your recipe. What do you think could be changed about yours to make it closer?

Probably lowering the amount of grain to achieve 4% abv. With less grain you might want to use less hops to balance it a little bit but I don't know for sure. I developed this recipe to be similar to Rodeo but not the same. I like my beers with a little bit of a punch. For my tastes, I prefer my beer over a Rodeo, which is why it is named Rodeo Clown. We named it that because we felt it makes Rodeo look like a clown in comparison haha!