Rodenbach Grand Cru Clone

[cactusgarrett]

A pellicle is formed in response to presence of oxygen, so if you had a leak in your lid and/or your airlock dried up, that would very easily cause a thick pellicle.

 

[Beer666]

Is it likely to have a long term negative effect. Its properly sealed now.

 

[cactusgarrett]

I'm sure it'll be fine in the longrun. It could be a bigger issue with a clean or softer beer, but IMHO, darker sours often benefit from a little oxygenation here and there to give them a slight sherry-like flavor.

 

[dawn_kiebawls]

Well I went to check on this carboy just now and I fear I have a mold raft floating on the surface I can't tell if it's a pellicle or mold because it's kinda dark down there and the carboy has condensation in it. I don't want to open it to try and get a better look out of fear of O2 ingress. I'll just let it ride for a while longer and see if it becomes more obvious what it is with some more time.

I just can't figure out how there was any O2 in there for a pellicle to form in the first place. When I transferred to secondary there was still activity in the airlock, the gravity was 1.010 and that's when I added the dregs. It's been sealed ever since. I will be really sad if this becomes a dumper

 

[Manuel Julian Rodríguez]

Hey I'm new in the sours, I want to give this a try but I'm form Colombia and I can't find any sour mix, what do you think about making the wort as usual, fermenting with a german ale and then pitching some lacto grown from malts and brett from a bottle of beer?
other thing i was planing to do was doing a kettle sour and throw some brett and let it age, Im kind of scaried about making something totaly out of balance. any advice about the mixed culture ferment will be great.

 

[cactusgarrett]

With that combination of lacto and brett, you can do a LOT of things in a variety of ways. Check this out; should give you plenty of reading and options:
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Mixed_Fermentation

 

[Beer666]

I have had something along these lines sitting in a demijohn for the last 8 months and its still not sour. After reading this thread i have decided to add some malto dextrin and more bugs. Probably sour weapon p but i am concerned about messing with the pellicle. Would seem like a good time to add oak too.
I do have lacto but the beer is around 10 IBU.

 

[dawn_kiebawls]

Almost 8 months in secondary. I haven't pulled a sample yet but it smells fantastic. I'm on the fence about whether or not to add oak or leave it as is, but I suppose I'll need to taste it to make that decision. I'm excited for this one!

How is everyone bottling this? Will I need to re-yeast it in order for it to prime?

 

[cactusgarrett]

How is everyone bottling this? Will I need to re-yeast it in order for it to prime?

I bottle all my sours in large format bottles (champagne, bombers, etc.). For all my aged beers (whatever sits longer than 6 months) I re-yeast at bottling time with CBC-1 and GoFerm. Works like a charm. If i didn't use GoFerm, I would get extra insurance of good priming by doing an acid shock starter for the bottling yeast.

 

[monkeymath]

I brewed a batch of this back in September and just bottled it today. It is phenomenal! One of the best beers I have ever made. I made it for my buddy's wedding, so hopefully he will enjoy it as much as I do.

I know this is post is sort of old, but I'm actually getting married the day after tomorrow and so I wanted to ask if
(a) you still had some of that Flanders' Red, and, if yes,
(b) you wanted to be my friend?

 

[BrewCityBaller]

I know this is post is sort of old, but I'm actually getting married the day after tomorrow and so I wanted to ask if
(a) you still had some of that Flanders' Red, and, if yes,
(b) you wanted to be my friend?

As it happens, I am certain that there are still bottles of this from way back in 2016. My friend drinks one every year on his anniversary. Unfortunately, I don't think I can ask for some back!

Congrats on your wedding though. I hope COVID has not affected your plans too much.

 

[monkeymath]

As it happens, I am certain that there are still bottles of this from way back in 2016. My friend drinks one every year on his anniversary. Unfortunately, I don't think I can ask for some back!

Congrats on your wedding though. I hope COVID has not affected your plans too much.

Eh, it was worth a shot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Good thing I currently have a Flanders Red fermenting myself.

Thanks man tbh I was never too keen on "hosting" a wedding: too many people to take care of, way too much attention on the bridal couple. Sure I would've liked having a few more of our close friends around, but with COVID related restrictions in place, it was much easier to draw the line at "best man + maid(s) of honour only", no hurt feelings of people that didn't make the cut.
Had a wonderful day, can't say I've missed a thing. And we can still throw a party at a later point in time, if we feel so inclined.

 

[dawn_kiebawls]

I bottle all my sours in large format bottles (champagne, bombers, etc.). For all my aged beers (whatever sits longer than 6 months) I re-yeast at bottling time with CBC-1 and GoFerm. Works like a charm. If i didn't use GoFerm, I would get extra insurance of good priming by doing an acid shock starter for the bottling yeast.

I'll probably use 12oz bottles because that's what I have and it will make this batch stretch further (at least, that's the plan). I really like bottle priming (putting a measured amount of sugar directly into each bottle). Would I be able to just add dry GoFerm and CBC-1 into the bottle at the same time?

I still have a few months before this batch meets bottles but I have a golden sour ready to go as soon as I get some time. Thanks again!

 

[Manuel Julian Rodríguez]

I brewed a batch of this in february but it didnt sour at all, but I bougt some lacto this week, if I pitch it?, will it sour?

 

[andrewmaixner]

I brewed a batch of this in february but it didnt sour at all, but I bougt some lacto this week, if I pitch it?, will it sour?

No. The recipe lists 16 IBU. commercially sold lacto is inhibited at between 1 and 8 IBU.
Your easiest bet would be to pitch some propped up bottle dregs from something with know agressive pedio and come back in 3 months, or, do nothing and wait 1 year to taste it again.
Roselare is known for NOT souring quickly on it's first use.

Alternately, you could make a gallon of unhopped similar red/brown wort, sour it to 3.1 pH with something easy like Lacto Plantarum (goodbelly), and try blending. Most commercial sour beers are blended to taste.

For more in-depth information, read American Sour Beers, and the MilkThefunk wiki.

 

[Beer666]

No. The recipe lists 16 IBU. commercially sold lacto is inhibited at between 1 and 8 IBU.
Your easiest bet would be to pitch some propped up bottle dregs from something with know agressive pedio and come back in 3 months, or, do nothing and wait 1 year to taste it again.
Roselare is known for NOT souring quickly on it's first use.

Alternately, you could make a gallon of unhopped similar red/brown wort, sour it to 3.1 pH with something easy like Lacto Plantarum (goodbelly), and try blending. Most commercial sour beers are blended to taste.

For more in-depth information, read American Sour Beers, and the MilkThefunk wiki.

When blending do i need to let the 2 beers sit for a while to mix or can i rack both and bottle? I have a quite a few batches fermented with Roeselare and so far none are sour so going to blend them with a fast sour.

 

[Manuel Julian Rodríguez]

No. The recipe lists 16 IBU. commercially sold lacto is inhibited at between 1 and 8 IBU.
Your easiest bet would be to pitch some propped up bottle dregs from something with know agressive pedio and come back in 3 months, or, do nothing and wait 1 year to taste it again.
Roselare is known for NOT souring quickly on it's first use.

Alternately, you could make a gallon of unhopped similar red/brown wort, sour it to 3.1 pH with something easy like Lacto Plantarum (goodbelly), and try blending. Most commercial sour beers are blended to taste.

For more in-depth information, read American Sour Beers, and the MilkThefunk wiki.

actually I made it with more or less 8-10 IBU, maybe could it sour?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I brewed a batch of this in february but it didnt sour at all, but I bougt some lacto this week, if I pitch it?, will it sour?

Do you mean you brewed in Feb this year? Souring with pedio is slow. Leave it a year then give it a try. As mentioned, there's no point pitching lacto.

 

[Shenanigans]

Do you mean you brewed in Feb this year? Souring with pedio is slow. Leave it a year then give it a try. As mentioned, there's no point pitching lacto.

Yes it will take more in the region of a year to get a decent level of sourness.
If you really can't wait you can add some lactic acid but that would be a bit one dimensional.
Have a bit of patience and wait if you can, in the end you will be happy you did.
You could of course split it in half if you really want to pre-sour some already and lock the other half away for at least another 6 months before trying a bottle.

 

[Beermeister32]

I did a 5 gallon batch soured with Roeselare and aged it 2 years. I didn’t care for the flavor and dumped it along side our industrial building in the weeds where it belonged.

So, a couple years go by and I ended up buying some Rodenbach Sour Ale the other day at Total Wine and More. I do this periodically when samples come up.

Popped open one of those big 500ml cans, and there’s that flavor again. Ech. Next time I want a sour, I’ll stick with an Oud Bruin...

 

[Gnomebrewer]

@Beermeister32 Are you trying to make us all cry?

 

[andrewmaixner]

When blending do i need to let the 2 beers sit for a while to mix or can i rack both and bottle? I have a quite a few batches fermented with Roeselare and so far none are sour so going to blend them with a fast sour.

http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Blending

 

[Gnomebrewer]

If your fast sour is lacto only, there will still be sugars that the Brett from the Roeselare will eat, which could lead to bottle bombs. To blend in the bottle, you'll need to either:
- add some glucoamylase to the fast sour so it's fully fermented
- use Brett in the fast sour as well, and age it for at least a few months
- calculate how much residual food there is for the Brett in the fast sour, and use the right amount so that it replaces the priming sugar (not very hard to do, but might not be the ratio of each beer you were looking for)
- pasteurise the Roeselare beer
- something else???

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Just a thought....before committing to blending with a fast sour, try some of the Roeselare beer with a little bit of malt vinegar - it might give the sourness you're looking for.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

One more option to the fast sour + Roeselare blend is to use a diastatic yeast in the fast sour. The residual sugar would still need to be accounted for, but not nearly as much as with a non-diastatic yeast.

 

[Beer666]

If your fast sour is lacto only, there will still be sugars that the Brett from the Roeselare will eat, which could lead to bottle bombs. To blend in the bottle, you'll need to either:
- add some glucoamylase to the fast sour so it's fully fermented
- use Brett in the fast sour as well, and age it for at least a few months
- calculate how much residual food there is for the Brett in the fast sour, and use the right amount so that it replaces the priming sugar (not very hard to do, but might not be the ratio of each beer you were looking for)
- pasteurise the Roeselare beer
- something else???

Sorry i should of given you a bit more info. The batches fermented with Roeselare finish around 1006 and the fast sours finish at 1010. Perhaps i can get away with using a quarter of the normal amount of sugar for priming?
A friend of mine described my Roeselare beers as like a bretted English bitter so perhaps i should just drink them as they are and brew more to mature. At least then i can refill my demijohns. I do have a few batches that are in the right ballpark so not all is lost. Have learned a lot in the past few years reading on here so i am sure i can improve. Thanks for your help.

 

[Shenanigans]

I plan on finally brewing this sometime this Summer.
A 5 gallon batch is planned but I was thinking why not use my 15 gallon pot and brew up 10 gallons and make a split batch.
Half of the original recipe and the second half with a "normal" yeast for something that will be ready to drink quicker.

Has anyone done this?
Any suggestions what style this grain bill would work for?

Some kind of Belgian dubbel? I have M31 which should be like WLP570 the Duvel strain and can add some boiled dark homemade candisyrup to the fermenter.

An English ale? I have Wlp002, Wlp007, London III and Verdant
16 IBUs might be bit low for these styles?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks.

 

[monkeymath]

I plan on finally brewing this sometime this Summer.
A 5 gallon batch is planned but I was thinking why not use my 15 gallon pot and brew up 10 gallons and make a split batch.
Half of the original recipe and the second half with a "normal" yeast for something that will be ready to drink quicker.

Has anyone done this?
Any suggestions what style this grain bill would work for?

Some kind of Belgian dubbel? I have M31 which should be like WLP570 the Duvel strain and can add some boiled dark homemade candisyrup to the fermenter.

An English ale? I have Wlp002, Wlp007, London III and Verdant
16 IBUs might be bit low for these styles?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks.

I didn't brew the original recipe, but something similar. Twice, actually. Bottled a pint of each straight when the young beer was transferred to secondary. Yeast strains were Imperial B48 "Triple Double" (supposedly equivalent to WY 3787) and WY 1469 West Yorkshire.

I'd say it wasn't bad, but a touch too rich - there's lots of specialty malts and the mash temp was rather high in order to leave some residual extract after primary fermentation. Low bitterness doesn't help either.

I think the two goals of
(a) having something tasty after only a few weeks
(b) having something tasty after a year and a half
are a bit opposed here. But I might very well be wrong, this is just my impression.



a) having

 

[andrewmaixner]

I plan on finally brewing this sometime this Summer.
A 5 gallon batch is planned but I was thinking why not use my 15 gallon pot and brew up 10 gallons and make a split batch.
Half of the original recipe and the second half with a "normal" yeast for something that will be ready to drink quicker.
Has anyone done this?
Any suggestions what style this grain bill would work for?
Some kind of Belgian dubbel? I have M31 which should be like WLP570 the Duvel strain and can add some boiled dark homemade candisyrup to the fermenter.
An English ale? I have Wlp002, Wlp007, London III and Verdant
16 IBUs might be bit low for these styles?
Any other suggestions?
Thanks.

Yes, I do that literally every time (21gal custom homemade eBIAB). 2row + 20% rye, 20 ibu noble/spicy hopstand, then add 2lbs of D90/D180 or dextrose as fermentation winds down, and I have a dubbel (or quad) + tripple, depending on strength and dark syrups.
Another split I often do is run-off and dilute a few gallons of something pre-boil or pre-hopstand to split off a gose or quicksour from an IPA or tripple or whatever. I'm limited on time, and making 3 kegs in one afternoon beats doing it in 3 afternoons.
Be creative!

 

[Shenanigans]

Thanks for the tips guys.
Actually what I really want to do is use just use up the pack of 3763 before it gets too old.
I already made a starter with it a few months ago to keep it alive.
I want to brew a Tripel next but I'm not sure if I split that and added the 3763 what will come out in the end.
If I need to do a co-pitch with another yeast or if it would be OK on its own.

Anyway I don't want to hijack this thread and will open a new one for my questions about that.