Robobrew regrets?

[Ksub123]

I have been brewing with a friend on a blichman burner and pot for a few years. He bought those and I bought all the other bits and bobs. But now it seems like he might be moving soon which means I’m going to need to get a new boil setup.

Does anyone regret buying a Robobrew? Are there many hidden maintenance costs?

I like the idea of brewing in my garage without the warm, fuzzy embrace of carbon monoxide. But there’s so little that can go wrong with propane and a pot in terms of upkeep.

 

[deadwolfbones]

The V2 and V3 had a lot of issues with control boards burning out. Mine did, and if you search the FB group(s) there are plenty of others. Allegedly, V3.1 is a lot better—I have a V3.1 board/screen in mine now and so far it's chugging along. Time will tell!

There are also mods you can do to help prevent these issues (adding a contactor or an external controller).

Otherwise, I love it.

 

[Ksub123]

Cool. An electric setup would really make winter brewing a lot more enjoyable, plus the automation would be nice. I haven’t heard much about the robobrew until recently but I’ve heard of people having issues with the grainfather but at that price...

 

[verboten]

I've been using mine way too often, and loving it. The only regret I have is that the 65L wasn't out when I bought it. Instead I'm building my own along the lines of the robobrew with a 15G and a 20G Spike kettle

 

[jimfire85]

While I've had a good time overall using mine setup with a steam Slayer, my last brew day ended up outside with propane. While the robobrew was getting temp up to boil I heard a pop followed by the smell of melted circuitry. So I am currently awaiting my replacement board and screen, which is now the 3.1 version. So once that shows up I'll replace it and see how it holds up.

 

[Norlz]

You should definitively get the 3.1 as it's board was updated.

 

[Ksub123]

Sorry to hear that Jimfire. I wonder if this is a common problem. Also if the new board will fix it.

 

[deadwolfbones]

Sorry, I meant 3.1 in my earlier post. Fixed now. :\

 

[jimfire85]

Finally got around to replacing the panel, haven't completed yet, but wanted to provide an update as I'm in the process. I have suspicious feeling the circuit board was not the problem. Take a look at the attached photo , scorched terminals and cracked wiring on the power supply wiring. Easy to replace, but definitely something that robobrew owners should give a look inside their system for preventative maintenance.
*Update* completed the replacement, upgraded the supply line and connectors to 14ga instead of 16 with more robust connections as well. Powered up just fine. Also the bottom of the old circuit board exploded.

 

[Ksub123]

Thanks for the update Jimfire. Glad to hear it was an easy repair. Did Robobrew cover the parts under warranty?

 

[jimfire85]

Thanks for the update Jimfire. Glad to hear it was an easy repair. Did Robobrew cover the parts under warranty?

I ordered the parts through brewerdude for about $35 or so. I had bought the unit from one of the online vendors through their ebay presence, for a deep discount as it was a "ding and dent" model, which only carried a 60 day warranty which I was way past. Just brought the system up to a test boil and it did so just fine, so it now will live out its life as an HLT/ Kettle souring vessel , since I have upgraded the rest of my equipment to a 240 controller w/ 5500 watt element in the mean time.

 

[WesBrew]

The warranty on kegland is 3yrs, morebeer in US is only 1yr. that is about the only thing holding me back. hope people are having good luck with them though.

 

[Brewdogbrew]

The problems I have with the Robobrew v3 35L (120v) after several batches:

1.) controller is way off on temperature reading and it is not consistent on the variance. What I mean is that it reads 13 degree high at 150 actual degrees and 23 degrees high at 212 degrees so calibrating it doesn't fix the problem because it is not consistent. I basically have to set it for the boil stage to 235 degrees and keep checking it with a precise digital thermometer to know if I have reach the correct temperature.
2.) It is slow (in my option) to reaching a given temperature. It takes 50 minutes to reach a boil from 170 degrees to 212 degrees and it is not a truly rolling boil. I am boiling 7.5 gallons in the robobrew to get a final volume of 5 gallons. I do have the jacket on it and I have to put the lid on it to reach the boil - which is not good - you should not cover the kettle when boiling as it impact evaporation rate and prevent the burn off of off flavors you don't want.

I am very precise on temperature and time with all steps of brewing and the Robobrew is the weak link in my system. I am considering to going back to the standard 3-tier system using propane but may give robo a couple more batches to be sure.

Now I will say that the beer I am making is near commercial level quality based on friends and co-workers (I work at a craft brewery) tastings. However I am not sure I can get to the next level with the Robobrew as part of the equation unless there is a quicker way to hit target temperatures.

What are others seeing as far as timings to getting to the correct temperature both at mashing and boiling?
Thanks

 

[verboten]

I set my mash temp as I’m milling grain, it’s always at temp by the time I’ve ready to mash in. I set it to boil temp as I’m sparging , typically by the time sparging is over, I’m boiling or darn near. I have a brewhardware.com heat stick and I use that to help heat as needed. I put a 1650 watt element on that, it boils very quickly

 

[Brewdogbrew]

Thank you for the advice. I started the heating for boil at sparge and it really helped. Will also look into the heat stick

 

[deadwolfbones]

I'm about 20 brews deep on my Robobrew and the things I dislike about it are:

1. Temperature fluctuations. Even with just the 500w element on, the measured temp swings by up to 10 degrees (5 in either direction) during the mash. I stir frequently since I don't have the pump and I'm doing BIAB, but it seems pretty unavoidable. But my temp readings are pretty accurate, at least.
2. Agree it takes forever to get to a boil. But hey, I just sit back, relax, and have a homebrew.

Otherwise it's great, and I'm making great beer.

 

[Allan M Tiso]

Howdy DWB,
I’m thinking of the Robobrew without the pump. I like things simple. Without the pump, would you say that mainly what I’m giving up is the ability to skip stirring?

 

[Brewdogbrew]

Hi Allen,

IMO the pump is a must have for the following reasons:

1.) Allows for recirculating at both the mashing and boiling stages. This allows for improved efficiency and extraction. It is a simplistic RIMS (re circulation infusion Mash System) technique. Also at the boil it helps reduce the chance of scorching by keep the wort moving from bottom to top of the kettle.
2.)Chilling the wort after boil: The pump can send hot wort through a wort chiller sitting in a cooler of ice which then is returned to the robobrew kettle using two long hoses attached to the wort chiller. I can get 5 gallons cooled to 68 degrees in around 30 minutes using this method.
3.) Transferring to fermenter is easy: just put the hose from the pump into the fermenter (I use a longer hose than what comes with the robobrew) and turn on the pump.

You still need to stir for the following steps:
1.) Dough in of the grains for mashing to ensure the water and grains are evenly mixed.
2.) At hot break to prevent a boil over
3.) periodically as needed

 

[Allan M Tiso]

Hi Allen,

IMO the pump is a must have for the following reasons:

1.) Allows for recirculating at both the mashing and boiling stages. This allows for improved efficiency and extraction. It is a simplistic RIMS (re circulation infusion Mash System) technique. Also at the boil it helps reduce the chance of scorching by keep the wort moving from bottom to top of the kettle.
2.)Chilling the wort after boil: The pump can send hot wort through a wort chiller sitting in a cooler of ice which then is returned to the robobrew kettle using two long hoses attached to the wort chiller. I can get 5 gallons cooled to 68 degrees in around 30 minutes using this method.
3.) Transferring to fermenter is easy: just put the hose from the pump into the fermenter (I use a longer hose than what comes with the robobrew) and turn on the pump.

You still need to stir for the following steps:
1.) Dough in of the grains for mashing to ensure the water and grains are evenly mixed.
2.) At hot break to prevent a boil over
3.) periodically as needed

Thanks Brewdogbrew. I appreciate you spending the time detailing this. I haven’t bought yet ...probably not for another month since I am moving. I’m a real minimalist. Most of my brews going forward will likely be no-boil, no-sparge, and no-chill. I’m still thinking about it and always grateful for advice.

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

I'm also looking to buy the v3.1 and wondering if it's a decent unit. Long boil times are annoying, but not a deal breaker for me. I can always stick another heating element in there or just kick back and wait. I just want to get a unit that's not going to crap out on me during the brew day.

 

[Robert Waligora]

My friend Erik has been brewing with a RoboBrew for about a year now and he loves it. I'm actually a little jealous because it has a small footprint, but it is a full brewing system. He even recirculates the mash and hasn't had any problems with a stuck sparge. The 1 recommendation is that you get the Neoprene jacket for it. Before that, it didn't do well maintaining temperature during the Mash. But afterwards, it has been able to maintain temp within 2 degrees.

 

[Norlz]

I'm also looking to buy the v3.1 and wondering if it's a decent unit. Long boil times are annoying, but not a deal breaker for me. I can always stick another heating element in there or just kick back and wait. I just want to get a unit that's not going to crap out on me during the brew day.

I have used the V3.1 for 4 batches now and don't have any regret. I tried to brew outside but the elements are not powerfull enough when it's windy. As for the long boil time, I think it's exagerated but hey, I've never uses propane before. One thing I do is to crank the temp while I sparge.

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

I've got 3 brews on the Brewzilla v3.1 now, and they have mostly gone smooth, and all successful. The first and third brews I got pretty low efficiency, about 65%. For the second one, I got great efficiency but a stuck mash. I think that was due to a much finer crush and not using any rice hulls. Everything else, including boil times, using the pump, chiller, timer, etc., has been flawless.

I'd say at this point if I can get my efficiency to stay in the same ballpark and avoid stuck mashes, I'll be 100% satisfied. That being said, having a dedicated mash tun might be in my future. I could easily use the Brewzilla as both the HLT and boil kettle, and use my 5g pot to hold the majority of the first runnings. I'm going to give it a few more tries before I go that route though.

 

[brew703]

Can one brew full volume on the Robobrew? I currently am a BIAB brewer but looking to move over to electric.
I'm thinking the 65L would work for 5 gal full volume batches.

 

[WesBrew]

Can one brew full volume on the Robobrew? I currently am a BIAB brewer but looking to move over to electric.
I'm thinking the 65L would work for 5 gal full volume batches.[/QUOTE
the 35l version is 9.25 gallons, the 65l version is 17.1 gallons. shouldn't have any trouble boiling 6 & 12 gallons respectively.

 

[Fidelity101]

3 brews into my Brewzilla 35L and I'm getting 58% efficiency...unless I'm taking this measurement wrong? I start with 6.09 gallons of water, add in some PH5.2 stabilizer and bring it to 149F. I add 13 pounds of grain and an hour later my gravity reading is 1.056. I bring the wort from 149 to 170F and the raise the grain basket and sparge 170F water on top (2.5 gallons). That's 8.59 total gallons pre-boil and I'm left with 24L or 6.34 gallons post boil. My pre-boil gravity is 1.038 and my OG is 1.046. These numbers just seem lower than I would expect. Originally I was happy thinking my mash out gravity was the number I should be using...1.056 is much closer to the 1.060 number I'm expecting. But once I add sparge water it really gets bad.

Since my last two efficiencies (again, unless I"m using the wrong number) were 59% and 58% respectively, I think it's time to buy my own grain grinder instead of having the LHBS or online vendor do the grinding for me. Hopefully that will help.

 

[jschein]

3 brews into my Brewzilla 35L and I'm getting 58% efficiency...unless I'm taking this measurement wrong? I start with 6.09 gallons of water, add in some PH5.2 stabilizer and bring it to 149F. I add 13 pounds of grain and an hour later my gravity reading is 1.056. I bring the wort from 149 to 170F and the raise the grain basket and sparge 170F water on top (2.5 gallons). That's 8.59 total gallons pre-boil and I'm left with 24L or 6.34 gallons post boil. My pre-boil gravity is 1.038 and my OG is 1.046. These numbers just seem lower than I would expect. Originally I was happy thinking my mash out gravity was the number I should be using...1.056 is much closer to the 1.060 number I'm expecting. But once I add sparge water it really gets bad.

Since my last two efficiencies (again, unless I"m using the wrong number) were 59% and 58% respectively, I think it's time to buy my own grain grinder instead of having the LHBS or online vendor do the grinding for me. Hopefully that will help.

A few questions and observations;
What was the grain bill? You said 13lbs but how much crystal malt?

@149 you should be creating a more fermentable wort

Check your water volume, you say 8.59 gallons pre boil, that is your total volume you started with , you will have losses from the grain. What is your preboil volume?

Do you recirculate?
If not how much so you stir the mash?

Is the stabilizer because your water report says you need it? I have never used that product. Are you checking the ph to make sure the stabilizer is doing the job?

 

[Fidelity101]

Recipe:
10 pounds Maris Otter Pale
1 pound Crystal 60L
1 pound Munich
1 pound Torrified Wheat

Water volume
Start: 32.5L (8.59 gallons)
Pre Boil: 29L (7.66 gallons)
Post Boil: 24L (6.34 gallons)

I slowly add the grains and I stir after every pound or so. After all grains are added, I stir again for a minute. I then install the lid over the grains and let it sit for 5-10 minutes before I recirculate. I let this one sit for a full 60 minutes and then I slowly raised the temp from 149 to 168F before raising the grains out of the brewzilla and sparging with 170F water (using digiboil for the sparge water heater)

I added the stabilizer for no good reason. My water PH is 7.8 at the tap but I'm filtering it so it's actually 7.3 according to two testing devices I have. I figured adding some Ph reducer couldn't hurt so I've been using it steadily for the last few batches)

 

[WesBrew]

3 brews into my Brewzilla 35L and I'm getting 58% efficiency...unless I'm taking this measurement wrong? I start with 6.09 gallons of water, add in some PH5.2 stabilizer and bring it to 149F. I add 13 pounds of grain and an hour later my gravity reading is 1.056. I bring the wort from 149 to 170F and the raise the grain basket and sparge 170F water on top (2.5 gallons). That's 8.59 total gallons pre-boil and I'm left with 24L or 6.34 gallons post boil. My pre-boil gravity is 1.038 and my OG is 1.046. These numbers just seem lower than I would expect. Originally I was happy thinking my mash out gravity was the number I should be using...1.056 is much closer to the 1.060 number I'm expecting. But once I add sparge water it really gets bad.

Since my last two efficiencies (again, unless I"m using the wrong number) were 59% and 58% respectively, I think it's time to buy my own grain grinder instead of having the LHBS or online vendor do the grinding for me. Hopefully that will help.

1. your strike water temperature should be higher than your target mash temp because when you dump in the malts it drops the temperature. so you might have been AT 149 for less than an hour.
2. if your recipe is for 5 gallons of beer, obviously you have too much liquid. which will result in lower gravity reading. even for a gas system that boils off a full gallon, you'd have too much liquid. keep in mind when you over sparge- the wort extracted is going to be lower and lower gravity the longer you go. this weaker wort added to the 1.056 wort in the kettle will bring the gravity way down.

 

[Fidelity101]

1.) Thanks. Next batch will have a starting temp of 154F to offset the temperature drop...or should that be closer to 160F? Once the brewzilla has hit temperature, the 1900w heater is turned off and only the 500w remains on to help hold temp.

2.) Adjusting the total amount of water needed to get 5 gallons into the keg is still a work in progress. We usually dump the jar once to get rid of the trub. We also loose another jar full when dry hopping. The next batch should have about 1/2 gallon less water. What amounts of water are you guys using to get 5 gallons of finished beer from your brewzilla?

Brewfather estimated the preboil Gravity to be 1.053 and OG to be 1.060. That's taking into account the 6.09 gallons of mash water and 2.47 gallons of sparge water. The next batch will have 1/2 gallon less sparge water but my readings are pretty far below the estimates.

 

[WesBrew]

This system boils off, what? .5 gallons in an hour. Are u doing an hour boil? did you set up your brew software with the robobrew profile? I’d think that filling the dead space at bottom+1,5 quarts water per lb of malt would put you at 5 gallons mash water. losing some to grain. Then sparging to a boil volume around 6 gallons would have you around 5.5 to fermenter. Losing some to trub and transfer would net 5 gallons. Rough figuring. There are calculators online to get this exact.

 

[Fidelity101]

I used the Brewfather‘s stock Brewzilla 35L settings for my first batch and ended up with just over 4 gallons of beer. I’ve been adjusting the measurements to try and lock down the exact numbers needed to hit 5 gallons. The last batch was sub 5 gallons when I started with 6.09 gallons of mash water and 1.92 gallons of sparge water. This round I think I went over the mark with 6.09 gallons of mash water and 2.50 gallons of sparge water.

It’s loosing water at the mash step as the mash is set for 60 minutes before even starting to raise the temp from 149F to 170F for mash out. The next mash will start at 154F because of the heat loss during the grain addition and that might be a partial reason for efficiency loss. The brewzilla is then set to 215F for boil and using the 1900 watt element only once boil is reached which keeps a really nice boil. There is more water loss after the boil as it’s taking approximately 20-30 minutes to chill all of that water down to sub 80F. There is not much loss from the transfer from brewzilla to fermzilla because I use the pump to transfer everything it can before dumping the rest in manually. The brew process utilizes a hop container so none of the hops are transferred into the fermzilla.

Because my efficiency is so incredibly low, I’m trying to make small changes to see how I can kick up the gravity readings. PH of the water is adjusted only with 5.2 Stabilizer which has never been tested with my water to see if it’s actually doing enough. My stock water is 7.3 as mentioned above which is definitely not ideal for mashing so I may need to purchase something else to fix that.

For the next batch, I’ll try 6 gallons in the brewzilla and 2 gallons of spare water. That’s 8 total gallons which will hopefully be enough to put 5.5 gallons into the fermzilla. I figure I’ll loose at least 1/2 gallon because of the two trub dumps and loss during the pressure transfer.

I would like to hear what others have used for their brewzilla 35L and fermzilla configuration in terms of total water usage and what efficiencies they’re seeing.

 

[Wayne1]

Lose the 5.2. It does NOTHING.

I use 8.35-8.5 total water. I do not sparge. I mash with the full volume. Boil off, I limit to about .7 gallons an hour. I get about 5.25 gallons into the fermenter. I mill my own grains. I am consistently getting 70%

 

[Fidelity101]

So I'm guessing you have a 65L vs. my 35L brewzilla, correct? Sparging is only needed on mine because it can't hold anymore than 6.09 gallons of water when using 13 pounds of grain.

I have a digiboil AND a brewzilla 35L so it occurred to me that I could be mashing with more than 6 gallons. Instead of 6 gallons in the brewzilla and 2.5 gallons in the digiboil, I could be cycling the water from the digiboil into the brewzilla and brewzilla into the digiboil...basically giving all 8.5 gallons of water a chance to flow through the grain instead of waiting until the end to sparge. Does that make sense and would that improve efficiency?

Also, thanks for the comments on the 5.2 PH stabilizer...I'll toss it. It was a recommendation from my LHBS but that's most likely because he was out of the acids he normally carries. What's the best product to purchase in order to kick the water PH down?

 

[Wayne1]

Email Ward Labs and get their test kit: Ward Labs Test Kit

That will tell you exactly what shape your water is in.

Then use Martin Brungard's Bru'nWater spread sheet to find out what needs to be added.

For lowering pH, I use phosphoric Acid 88%.

Recirculate the strike water within the BrewZilla. Raise the temperature to mash out, lift the mash pipe and then sparge, slowly with the water from the DigiBoil.

Be careful exactly how much water you use and how much you boil off. All of those numbers will come into play, along with your crush, to determine you efficiency.

 

[Fidelity101]

Thank you...I just ordered a kit for $42. I did some PH and mineral testing yesterday and today and I can't believe how different they are! I would have thought the water would be constant over time.

Today I'm getting 290 us/cm at 67F and 7.85PH
Yesterday my solid particle count was closer to 210 us/cm

Until I get the report and provide more accurate measurements, brewfather is telling me to add the following to my next mash:
1.41g Calcium Chloride
3.49g Epsom Salt
4.68g Gypsum
Plus add to Sparge water:
0.49g Calcium Chloride
1.21g Epsom Salt
1.62g Gypsum

I think I'll just try making all of this water in the Brewzilla and then transferring the sparge water over to the digiboil.

 

[Fidelity101]

My Hayburner clone IPA is almost done so I'm a day or two away from making another batch. This last batch used 6.09 gallons of water in the mash tun and 2.5 gallons of sparge water. That put just under 6 gallons of wort into my fermenter. I've dumped the fermzilla jar twice now to get rid of trub and added 2oz of dry hops. I'll loose one more jar after cold crashing as well as a slight amount at the bottom of the fermzilla because of the sediment remaining so that puts me right around 5 gallons of actual beer in my corny keg.

My final gravity was 1.007 so I'm just over 5% alcohol and the taste is exactly what I'm going for. I would really like to increase my efficiency so I'm going to 1.) increase mash in temperature to 154F to account for the loss of heat and then allow the mash temperature to drop to 149F after adding in the 13 pounds of grain. 2.) Ditch that 5.2PH stabilizer and use Phosphoric Acid to get my PH down closer to 5.4. Hopefully these two small adjustments will get my efficiency into the 70% territory.

 

[Fidelity101]

So I'm trying another round. I set water temp to 154F and added 1oz of Phosphoric acid (10%) which brought my mash PH (at the 20 minute mark is when I measured) to 5.5PH. I also added 1ml of Calcium Chloride, 2.3ml of Gypsum and 2.8ml of Epsom Salt to the 8.25 gallons of water before seperating out the sparge water.

After the mash water temp reached 154F, i dropped the temp to 152F and starting mashing in the grains. My mash is now done so I'm raising the temperature of the water to 172F slowly using the 500w element only. (should i be using both elements at this point?)

My plan is to hit 172F, then raise the grains and sparge in the 2.25 gallons of water I have that are sitting in a hot water tank at 172F. Hopefully this process works better than last time as I really want an efficiency north of the 58% I've been getting. I'm still a little confused on the sparge rate because the last few sparges have been fairly quick but I'm reading that it should take 25 minutes or so...much longer than it's taken me in the past. The water flows through the grains much faster and I always thought you were suppose to leave 1/2" of water on top of the grains as they were taking the sparge water. Maybe I'll go slower this time and sparge in the water slowly. The water won't be resting at the top but at least it will take longer and hopefully that translates into more sugar in my wort.

 

[Wayne1]

Did you change the grind on your grains?
That will have the largest effect on your efficiency.
It will need to be changed for the different grains you use.

 

[Fidelity101]

My efficiency this time was 59%. It's so crazy that I'm getting 59% no matter how much effort I put into this. Back when I just stirred in the grains at 149F for 60 minutes and then pulling them out and sparged with 172F water I was getting 59% efficiency. Now that I'm bringing the mash up to 154F before adding grains, dropping temp to 152, soaking for an hour, raising the temperature up to 172F, then raising the grains and sparging with 172F water I'm still getting 59% efficiency.

I did notice that the water (wort) coming out of the grains after I pulled the grains and set them aside, was 1.040. That means I probably still have a lot of sugar left in the grains and I need to figure out how to extract that better.

The grain grind was done by Brewermaster.com as they were milled grains. I did purchase a cereal grinder so maybe that will help me going forward but I'm starting to think the sparging process isn't working as well as it could.

So my wort is 1.041 SG and the small amount of wort left in the grains is 1.040.
Boiling now.