RO water not exactly at 0 ppm

[Jayjay1976]

That inline taste and odor filter after the RO membrane is needed ONLY if the RO water is stored in a pressurized tank.

Russ

Is that because it cancels out the corrosive tendencies of the RO output?

 

[day_trippr]

No, it's mostly to clean up the "staleness" that water in a tank over time can exhibit.

btw, notice how much of an RO or RODI system is plastic...

Cheers!

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

The water can pick up a taste or odor from the poly liner that is inside the pressure tank. The carbon post filter removes that.

Russ

 

[dpeters]

In regards to the corrosive tendencies of RO water do they then recommend not to run it thru copper pipe? I was going to just T into the existing line to my fridge and one faucet upstairs and just shut off the feed downstream. The RO system I ordered does not have the DI on it BTW. I am setting up the RO system in the basement next to the well tank, water softener, and all source pipes so it would have been an easy clean install for me but if that is not recommended then I can re-run new lines.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Correct - no copper or brass contact with RO or DI water. Stainless is ok. Or poly.

https://www.buckeyehydro.com/pe-tubing/

Russ

 

[Jayjay1976]

No, it's mostly to clean up the "staleness" that water in a tank over time can exhibit.

btw, notice how much of an RO or RODI system is plastic...

Cheers!

PE and PP are two of the safest and most inert plastic resins ever developed. To gain food safety certification, not only the base resin but the FINISHED PARTS including release agents and colorants must also pass stringent extraction tests. The test consists of submersing the parts in a powerful solvent for a period of time, then analyzing the solvent for extractives via liquid chromatography. The US guidelines allow certain harmless extractives such as mineral oil and animal-sourced fats (mold release agent) up to a certain threshold. The EU and Japanese guidelines are even stricter, forbidding any extractives whatsoever though I believe they do permit washing the parts clean of mold release before performing the solvent test.

 

[day_trippr]

Not sure what that was all about, my point was quite simple (and contextually obvious): you don't find metal in RO systems...

Cheers!

 

[deuc224]

Hey Jayjay, my set up is from tap to sediment filter, to carbon filter, to RO, to post active carbon filter, to deionization filter. Let me see if i can upload a pic of the set up, its almost like the HbrewO but just my take on it i guess.

 

[deuc224]

 

[Jayjay1976]

Not sure what that was all about, my point was quite simple (and contextually obvious): you don't find metal in RO systems...

Cheers!

Sorry, I totally took your comment the wrong way. Thanks for setting me straight tho. Cheers!

 

[Jayjay1976]

Hey Jayjay, my set up is fro tap to sediment filter, to carbon filter, to RO, to post active carbon filter, to deionization filter. Let me see if i can upload a pic of the set up, its almost like the HbrewO but just my take on it i guess.

@Buckeye_Hydro is definitely the expert here so I will defer to his opinion.

IMHO, I believe you can just take out the deionization element, it's simply not needed for brewing. If we were on a forum about maintaining reef tanks with hard corals and their extremely demanding water requirements it would be useful; for home brewing it is simply overkill. That being said if you are making adjustments to your water before brewing with mineral salts, the DI won't hurt and you can be assured in assuming your ions really are at 0-0-0-0 in your water calc. Just don't drink the water, only use it to brew.

 

[deuc224]

Yeah im not planning on doing anything but brewing with this water and will be adding minerals back in. Really appreciate the feedback

 

[day_trippr]

If you look closely I bet you'll find the input to the DI stage comes from a tee that joins the pressure tank to the RO stage output. All you should need to do is remove the tube between the tee and the DI stage, then unplug your product tube from the DI state output and plug it into the tee...

Cheers!

 

[dpeters]

Correct - no copper or brass contact with RO or DI water. Stainless is ok. Or poly.

https://www.buckeyehydro.com/pe-tubing/

Russ

So I am guessing then I should not even use a standard faucet unless it is all stainless?

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

So I am guessing then I should not even use a standard faucet unless it is all stainless?

Correct. Or poly.
https://www.buckeyehydro.com/faucets-1/

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

View attachment 674091 View attachment 674092

If there is no pressurized storage tank, there is absolutely no benefit, and I would say there is a detriment to having a carbon filter between the RO and the DI.

 

[deuc224]

If there is no pressurized storage tank, there is absolutely no benefit, and I would say there is a detriment to having a carbon filter between the RO and the DI.

ThanksBuckeye hydro, so ur saying to just remove the DI all together?

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Thanks Buckeye Hydro, so you're saying to just remove the DI all together?

Yes. And assuming you don't have a pressurized storage tank, remove the carbon filter that comes AFTER the RO membrane. If you are up for a little replumbing, connect the post carbon so it is before the RO membrane.

 

[deuc224]

WOW thanks Buckeye RO!!!!!!

 

[eddieg115]

First, let's start with a little jargon: Rejection Rate.
Rejection Rate is the percentage of TDS the membrane does not allow to pass through to the purified water side of the membrane.

Most residential RO membranes has a factory spec rejection rate of 96 to 99%. So if your tap water reads 267 ppm tds, and your RO water reads 7 ppm tds, you have a 97% rejection rate.

So the TDS of the RO water is hugely affected by the TDS of your feed water. It doesn't really make sense to say something like "If your RO water isn't under 10 ppm something is wrong with your RO."

How much does tap water TDS vary across the country? We have customers with tap water below 50 ppm, and some over 2,800 ppm.

Russ

So you're saying the RO is effective enough to completely construct a water profile from scratch using brewing salts?

 

[Bilsch]

I recently installed a Hydrologic RO system to an outside spigot.

Excellent choice for a high end RO system. I love mine.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

RO is rarely, if ever, zero TDS.
If you expect it to be, you will be disappointed 99.99999999% of the time.
Whoever told you it should be zero sold you a bad bill of goods. Period.
It's close, but not zero.
If you want zero TDS, get distilled.

 

[day_trippr]

True - an RO membrane alone is unlikely to hit zero without down-sides.
But, tack on a DI stage, et voila! You got your zero TDS.
Which has its own set of issues to deal with, and is totally unnecessary for brewing beer...

So you're saying the RO is effective enough to completely construct a water profile from scratch using brewing salts?

Russ didn't say that. But I totally will. It's what I (and lots of others here) have been doing for years...

Cheers!

 

[user 263363]

So since this thread is focused on home RO systems, I am curious about something.

The two units we have at work use various chemical injections to ensure membrane life. One of those chemicals is sodium bicarbonate, which eliminates chlorine in the feed water as it is detrimental to the life of the membranes.

Are residential RO systems not sensitive to chlorine? Or do these systems come with charcoal filters to scrub the feed water?

 

[Rob2010SS]

So since this thread is focused on home RO systems, I am curious about something.

The two units we have at work use various chemical injections to ensure membrane life. One of those chemicals is sodium bicarbonate, which eliminates chlorine in the feed water as it is detrimental to the life of the membranes.

Are residential RO systems not sensitive to chlorine? Or do these systems come with charcoal filters to scrub the feed water?

When I called Russ at Buckeye Hydro and talked through my system, there was a filter option to take care of the chlorine IF i was on city water. However, I'm on well water so it wasn't needed. So mine only has the 2 filters but that 3rd filter is an option if needed.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Yes - residential RO systems are configured with carbon prefilters. A "prefilter" is any filter that treats the water before the water reaches the RO membrane." For commercial RO systems, including those at breweries, we typically install an auto-backwashing carbon tank. It is much more economical in the long run rather than replacing carbon cartridges, and the tanks can be sized to treat very high flows.

Russ

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Excellent choice for a high end RO system. I love mine.

We'll respectfully disagree with that.

 

[Bilsch]

We'll respectfully disagree with that.

I kinda thought you might but I'm very happy with my choice because it takes this...

pH 7.5
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 110
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.18
Cations / Anions, me/L 1.9/ 2.1
Sodium, Na 9
Potassium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 19
Magnesium, Mg 6
Total Hardness, CaCO3 73
Sulfate, SO4-S 6
Chloride, Cl 6
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 94
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 77

and turns it into this at .7 gallons per minute

pH 6.7
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 7 (actual measured, 2 ppm)
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.01
Cations / Anions, me/L 0.1/ 0.1
Sodium, Na 1
Potassium, K <1
Calcium, Ca 1
Magnesium, Mg <1
Total Hardness, CaCO3 3
Sulfate, SO4-S <1
Chloride, <1
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 <1
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 <1

These numbers are from Ward Labs.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

We'll send you a PM

 

[day_trippr]

Is there something missing from the source water report that would make the reason why an RO system is being used more evident?
I mean, that's pretty respectable water already...

Cheers!