Ringwood Ale 1187: holy disgusting!!!!

[hiphops]

Just made my first IPA with 1187. It tastes HORRIBLE! It tastes like a butter spread on a sheet of cardboard.

I heard that this yeast can be quite finicky requiring a diacetyl rest, which I understood to mean to let it hang out in the secondary.

This is what I did
1. 17 January 2013: did a 1.5L starter
2. 18 January 2013: brewed up the IPA. OG: 1.058 (for what its worth, this is the recipe: http://www.brew365.com/beer_stone_ipa.php)
3. 01 February 2013: transferred to secondary. FG: 1.010
4. 25 February 2013: dry hopped. FG 1.010

Any ideas? Help me!!!

 

[stpug]

Butter could be diacetyl.
Cardboard could be oxidized alcohol.

The former should be able to be dealt with by bringing up the temperature of the fermenter to ~70F for 3-4 days.
The latter is problematic and doesn't usually get better if it is oxidized.

However, it doesn't mean that you're encountering either of these issues. If it were me, and the beer were still in a fermenter, then I would bring up the temp in hopes to burn off the butter flavor (keeping my fingers crossed that it cured my cardboard flavors as well).

 

[Cyclman]

Ale temps pretty much automatically mean a diacetyl rest. DRs are usually for lagers at low temps. Sounds like an infection or very bad fermentation to me.

 

[bkl63]

Yes.. it sounds like diacetyl with oxidation. Did you track the fermentation temps along the way? I use Ringwood a lot and haven't experienced a bad diacetyl taste yet. Your dates show you just dry hopped it today. Did you taste it before or after the dry hop addition? 5 Weeks out seems a bit long to just be getting around to a dry hop. Ringwood is a very quick yeast. and has been done doing it's thing well within a week. The risk for oxidation can be great, especially if you have been opening the container to check things out over the few weeks in the Primary and them the move to the Secondary.

 

[homebrewdad]

Yes.. it sounds like diacetyl with oxidation. Did you track the fermentation temps along the way? I use Ringwood a lot and haven't experienced a bad diacetyl taste yet. Your dates show you just dry hopped it today. Did you taste it before or after the dry hop addition? 5 Weeks out seems a bit long to just be getting around to a dry hop. Ringwood is a very quick yeast. and has been done doing it's thing well within a week. The risk for oxidation can be great, especially if you have been opening the container to check things out over the few weeks in the Primary and them the move to the Secondary.

5 weeks is not going to oxidize the beer unless the OP has been pulling the lid on and off over and over again. I have an imperial nut brown ale that sat 4 weeks in primary, 4 months in secondary. Not a hint of oxidation, and this brew is now over a year old (i.e. oxidation would have shown up long ago).

 

[bkl63]

As I had stated, it would have entailed taken the lid on and off.

Also if it's a bucket, it could be a poorly sealed lid. A cardboard taste is a fairly clear sign of oxidation. Ringwood is widely used in Brewpubs for it's ability to go from brew to glass in a week.

5 weeks is not going to oxidize the beer unless the OP has been pulling the lid on and off over and over again. I have an imperial nut brown ale that sat 4 weeks in primary, 4 months in secondary. Not a hint of oxidation, and this brew is now over a year old (i.e. oxidation would have shown up long ago).

 

[mewithstewpid]

Ringwood really needs open fermentation to shine. But yes it is notorious for throwing off diacetyl

 

[bkl63]

True but the Fermentation is quick, over in a few days. So care needs to be taken to avoid oxidation.

Ringwood really needs open fermentation to shine. But yes it is notorious for throwing off diacetyl

 

[hiphops]

I taste it before and it was pretty good. Something happened between the time I transferred to the secondary and the time I dry hopped it. It didn't taste very good yesterday when I sampled it just before dry hopping. I ferment in a glass carboy. The airlock was on tight. In fact, the only time it was opened was then I transferred it to the secondary (using a siphon and not getting any air bubbles of course). Guess I should stick with trusty ole 1056.

 

[stpug]

If you got a distinct butter flavor then increasing your temps to 70 for 3-4 days is a pretty process to try to remove any possible diacetyl. Diacetyl, even in small amount. only gets worse with time so taking the time to remove it now may be the difference between drinking the beer and dumping the beer. This process should not harm the beer since fermentation is complete.

Cardboard I would not worry about; just keep my fingers crossed it's nothing too important and fades away.

Remember, you are sampling new, young, green, unmelded, room temperature beer. It WILL taste different in 4+ weeks; likely better, but maybe worse.

I would follow through with my process as if the beer was going to be the best one I've brewed yet. Give it a DR, dry hop it, bottle/keg it, condition it, and try a fully carbonated beer in 4+ weeks to see how it's changed. Keep some tasting notes on this one as you sample it. I find it interesting how my impression of beer changes throughout the brewing process. I have an amber ale that went from basically tasting like water (i.e. nothing) to something special over the course of 2 weeks. I would sample every 4 days or so and it's interesting how aspects of the beer started popping out at each sampling. It's now a fantastic, well-balanced beer and I'm very pleased with it.

 

[Hokie1996]

I tried ringwood for first time 18Feb brewing a Sam smith nut brown clone. pitched about 7pm and slow fermentation the next afternoon at about 68deg. morning day 2 moved to 62 deg. fermentation all but stopped so moved back up to 68 deg day 3. Today 26 Feb ferm is slow and gravity is at 1.022. am i stuck? should i raise temp to get going? help!

 

[stpug]

I tried ringwood for first time 18Feb brewing a Sam smith nut brown clone. pitched about 7pm and slow fermentation the next afternoon at about 68deg. morning day 2 moved to 62 deg. fermentation all but stopped so moved back up to 68 deg day 3. Today 26 Feb ferm is slow and gravity is at 1.022. am i stuck? should i raise temp to get going? help!

I'd give it upperend of it's temp range (70-72) and let it take it's time. According to wyeast, it can be a slow fermenter so just grin and bare it

 

[stpug]

Ale temps pretty much automatically mean a diacetyl rest. DRs are usually for lagers at low temps. Sounds like an infection or very bad fermentation to me.

I disagree with this. According to wyeast, it's fermentation range is 64-74F and...

A top cropping yeast strain with unique fermentation and flavor characteristics. Expect distinct fruit esters with a malty, complex profile. Flocculation is high, and the beer will clear well without filtration. A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete. This strain can be a slow starter and fermenter.

 

[Glynn]

I Have used ringwood many times in an amber ale and have never had a problem with it but i always let it sit in the primary for at least two weeks. Its a very fast yeast but can be slow to start so i always make a 2 step starter with it. Two of my batches were even open fermented with it for the first week then capped and air locked.

 

[bkl63]

I agree, the ramp up before Fermentation can be a slow process if you under pitch the yeast. Once it goes, it's fast. I've gone from Brew to "on tap" in a week. Made the mistake of doing two Lagers in a row and the Kegerator went empty.

 

[Hokie1996]

Ok. still stuck ar 1.020 brewing again tomorrow and made a 1 liter starter with WLP 005. should i oxygenate the stuck fermentation batch and pitch 500ml of starter to restart ferm?

 

[stpug]

No, do not oxygenate/aerate your stuck fermentation as it will only serve to oxidize the beer at this point. Once you have alcohol in your beer then no more oxygen into the beer from there on out.

A 1L starter is probably the correct size for most 5gallon batches so splitting it between a stuck beer and a new beer will only increase your chances of having something go wrong on the new beer, and doesn't guarantee your stuck beer will finish. In other words, don't split your starter, just use the whole thing for your new beer.

NOW... If your new beer will be in a bucket during fermentation then you could certainly top-crop this beer and put it into your stuck beer. This will accomplish what you're trying to do (introduce new active yeast) but with better chances or success. Top-cropping can be as simple as using a sanitized scoop to scoop out some krausen and fermenting beer, and adding it to your stuck batch. The krausen is said to contain a large percentage of healthy, active yeast and the fermenting beer will add some sugars to your stuck beer for the yeast to work on as well as the residual/stuck sugars. If I had to guess how much of each to get I would say that you should harvest half of the krausen and about 500ml of beer - AT HIGH KRAUSEN.