Reverand Nat's Wooden Hellfire?

[bmd2k1]

anyone had the Rev Nat's Wooden Hellfire cider? Sounds interesting (...and Potent!)

http://www.newschoolbeer.com/2016/1...s-highest-abv-cider-16-6-wooden-hellfire.html


Cheers!

 

[RPh_Guy]

It does sound interesting.

I love their Winter Abbey Spice.
Emailed them for recipe help to make it myself but never heard back.

 

[madscientist451]

I was going to try making a boiled cider this year, I'll age it on Jack Daniel's chips soaked in Woodford Reserve. Any guesses what yeast Rev. Nat is using?

 

[ten80]

I have a cider going right now that I boiled to 1.140 and pitched QA23 yeast into. Smells like apple toffee with some nice fruity notes as it ferments away.

Yeast choice should be determined by your intended finished flavor profile. Something like QA23 or R4600 will make some nice fruity esters . D47 and 71B will be somewhere in the middle in terms of esters, whereas EC1118 will have a cleaner fermentation and a higher attenuation compared to the rest.

 

[bmd2k1]

I have a cider going right now that I boiled to 1.140 and pitched QA23 yeast into. Smells like apple toffee with some nice fruity notes as it ferments away.

Yeast choice should be determined by your intended finished flavor profile. Something like QA23 or R4600 will make some nice fruity esters . D47 and 71B will be somewhere in the middle in terms of esters, whereas EC1118 will have a cleaner fermentation and a higher attenuation compared to the rest.

How big of a batch? What was ur pre-boil SG? How long did ya boil it for? This approach sounds like an interesting option to try. [emoji111][emoji111]

 

[ten80]

About 7 gallons of rather bland juice I pressed boiled down to 3 gallons in around 4 hours, then 3 lbs of brown sugar added to hit 1.140. I hope it will finish around 1.035-1.040 so that it can be consumed like a sweet dessert wine. I did add 4g of Fermaid-O to help prevent the yeast from running out of nitrogen or producing sulfide odors due to fermentation stress.

 

[bmd2k1]

About 7 gallons of rather bland juice I pressed boiled down to 3 gallons in around 4 hours, then 3 lbs of brown sugar added to hit 1.140. I hope it will finish around 1.035-1.040 so that it can be consumed like a sweet dessert wine. I did add 4g of Fermaid-O to help prevent the yeast from running out of nitrogen or producing sulfide odors due to fermentation stress.

Any idea what ur pre & post boil SGs were.....prior to adding sugar?

 

[ten80]

Any idea what ur pre & post boil SGs were.....prior to adding sugar?

Flex your algebra muscles and you can calculate it from the information I posted

....... or just read below

1.140 for 3 gallons after adding 3 lbs sugar (35 ppg) means 1.140-0.035=1.105 OG before sugar. A volume reduction of 7/3 would mean an original gravity of 1.105/2.333 = 1.047 OG

Calculating boil-down gravities is all just simple math. Helps to know your pre-boil gravity to plan your ending volume.

 

[bmd2k1]

Flex your algebra muscles and you can calculate it from the information I posted [emoji14]

....... or just read below

1.140 for 3 gallons after adding 3 lbs sugar (35 ppg) means 1.140-0.035=1.105 OG before sugar. A volume reduction of 7/3 would mean an original gravity of 1.105/2.333 = 1.047 OG

Calculating boil-down gravities is all just simple math. Helps to know your pre-boil gravity to plan your ending volume.

Thx! Still aggregating my cider making pool of knowledge [emoji111] So it appears the boiling process doesn't cause any loss (or just negligible) of sugars. Need to create a cheat sheet [emoji16] I haven't ever added dry sugars to my ciders....only FAJC upfront.

Cheers & happy cidering [emoji111]

 

[ten80]

So it appears the boiling process doesn't cause any loss (or just negligible) of sugars. [emoji111]

Correct, but boiling will cause maillard reactions which essentially combine sugars with nitrogen in the juice to form more complex sugars that will not be fermented out. While this has no effect on the original gravity, it will cause a higher finishing gravity with some residual sugars. I would expect a boiled cider to not ferment to as low a final gravity as an ice cider (freeze-concentrated pre-fermentation). I'll find out in 6-12 months...

 

[papz]

Had this same idea years ago but never got around to doing it.
I'm glad somebody else did.
That drink looks great.

 

[theinterneti]

Glad to be living in Portland. Just drank some of Nat's sour cherry last night and absolutely loved it. Now I see on their website that you can actually get juice directly from them! Next weekend! I just might head down there and pick up 6 gallons.

 

[bmd2k1]

I have a cider going right now that I boiled to 1.140 and pitched QA23 yeast into. Smells like apple toffee with some nice fruity notes as it ferments away.

Yeast choice should be determined by your intended finished flavor profile. Something like QA23 or R4600 will make some nice fruity esters . D47 and 71B will be somewhere in the middle in terms of esters, whereas EC1118 will have a cleaner fermentation and a higher attenuation compared to the rest.

When's this bad boy gonna be ready 4 sampling?

 

[ten80]

When's this bad boy gonna be ready 4 sampling?

You know, I was just wondering that. I'll take a gravity sample tonight to determine if I need to start racking it to slow down the fermentation. I'd love for it to finish between 1.020 and 1.030. No idea right now, but it is still bubbling away slowly.

 

[ten80]

Well, I sampled my cider last night and it is down to 1.100 from 1.140. I suspect that the yeast is finding the fermentation challenging due to the high acid content of the juice and the cold temperature (48F) in my garage. I moved the carboy to a room at about ~56F and added 2.6 grams of potassium bicarbonate to buffer the pH up. I was in a hurry so I didn't take any pH measurements, but I doubt I over did the addition.

I think one thing to keep in mind when making boiled cider like this is that the acidity will be concentrated by the boiling. This obviously has an effect on the flavor of the cider and yeast health. I'd have added sodium hydroxide if I had some available because it has zero flavor contribution, but all I had was potassium bicarbonate, which has little to no effect on flavor when added judiciously. I have yet to determine the flavor threshold.

 

[madscientist451]

I don't have time to press my own juice this year, so I'm going to buy 4 gallons from the local orchard, boil down 2 gallons to about 1/2 gallon and then add it to the other 2 gallons. I don't know what beer yeast Rev. Nat uses so I'll go with 71B and see what happens. Am hoping for a SG around 1.080? I guess that depends on what i start off with from the orchard.
Edit:
1.080 was just a wild guess, but I plugged in a juice SG of 1.050 used a boil off calculator and came up with 1/2 gallon at 1.195, then used the blending calculator on the Brew United site and it says 1.079. Just shows even a stopped clock is correct twice a day.
Not planning on adding any sugar, I want to see how it comes out with just boiled juice added to unboiled juice. From reading Rev. Nat's description, that's what they are doing.
The cider will be racked from primary into 1 gallon jugs.. One jug will get an oak spiral, the other will age plain so I can blend if I have to.
I'll report back what the what gravity I get when its put together, and some tasting notes at racking and then a few months later.

 

[ten80]

71B is a good choice as it produces nice ciders and can handle high gravities. It will also metabolize some of the malic acid, which is a problem in my case.

Don't be afraid to boil the heck out of the juice with a high heat setting to get some good caramelization. You can add in a little yeast nutrient to provide nitrogen for maillaird reactions. Just don't scorch the juice on the bottom of your pot.

 

[bmd2k1]

I was going to try making a boiled cider this year, I'll age it on Jack Daniel's chips soaked in Woodford Reserve. Any guesses what yeast Rev. Nat is using?

The article says it was a Belgian Saison strain. [emoji111]

 

[bmd2k1]

I don't have time to press my own juice this year, so I'm going to buy 4 gallons from the local orchard, boil down 2 gallons to about 1/2 gallon and then add it to the other 2 gallons. I don't know what beer yeast Rev. Nat uses so I'll go with 71B and see what happens. Am hoping for a SG around 1.080? I guess that depends on what i start off with from the orchard.
Edit:
1.080 was just a wild guess, but I plugged in a juice SG of 1.050 used a boil off calculator and came up with 1/2 gallon at 1.195, then used the blending calculator on the Brew United site and it says 1.079. Just shows even a stopped clock is correct twice a day.
Not planning on adding any sugar, I want to see how it comes out with just boiled juice added to unboiled juice. From reading Rev. Nat's description, that's what they are doing.
The cider will be racked from primary into 1 gallon jugs.. One jug will get an oak spiral, the other will age plain so I can blend if I have to.
I'll report back what the what gravity I get when its put together, and some tasting notes at racking and then a few months later.

Relative newbie question.....how does a boil off calculator work to determine projected SG? Say I have 4gals juice initial SG=1.05 - boiled down to 2gals.

Thx!

 

[madscientist451]

I used the calculator on the Brewer's friend site, there are several others.

I'm thinking there's a good chance Rev. Nat is using the dry yeast Saison strain, that would be easier to manage in a production facility but maybe he's using a liquid strain?

 

[bmd2k1]

Relative newbie question.....how does a boil off calculator work to determine projected SG? Say I have 4gals juice initial SG=1.05 - boiled down to 2gals.

Thx!

Checking out the Brewers Friend calculator looks like the SG increase is inversely proportional to the reduction/boil off in volume. [emoji111]

 

[ten80]

Checking out the Brewers Friend calculator looks like the SG increase is inversely proportional to the reduction/boil off in volume. [emoji111]

Exactly. Boiling removes water but leaves behind sugar. Use C1*V1 = C2*V2 where C1 is initial concentration (sugar or gravity) and V1 is initial volume. You have three of the variables, solve for the fourth.

If using a saison strain, then watch closely for hydrogen sulfide production resulting from nutrient starvation of the yeast; this is not usually an issue when using wine yeast. Add Fermaid O (preferably) or Fermaid K at the first sign of rotten egg smell.

 

[bmd2k1]

Exactly. Boiling removes water but leaves behind sugar. Use C1*V1 = C2*V2 where C1 is initial concentration (sugar or gravity) and V1 is initial volume. You have three of the variables, solve for the fourth.

If using a saison strain, then watch closely for hydrogen sulfide production resulting from nutrient starvation of the yeast; this is not usually an issue when using wine yeast. Add Fermaid O (preferably) or Fermaid K at the first sign of rotten egg smell.

I'll probably drop D47 on it! [emoji16]

 

[ten80]

I'll probably drop D47 on it! [emoji16]

I've had great luck with D47 in cysers and it should ferment to 14% or so.

 

[bmd2k1]

More from the Rev

https://www.instagram.com/p/BqnbOw9h65U/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=13yuyrhe2b0i6

 

[papz]

Breakfast in Hell is an old Canadian folk song.

I like his live version better but this one is a little slower & easier to understand the words. His other songs are decent too if you get into folk.

 

[madscientist451]

I'm cooking up my boiled cider this week, it will be 3+ years until my Breakfast in hell clone attempt is ready to taste.....

 

[bmd2k1]

I'm cooking up my boiled cider this week, it will be 3+ years until my Breakfast in hell clone attempt is ready to taste.....

Interesting! What's ur plan?

 

[bmd2k1]

I'm cooking up my boiled cider this week, it will be 3+ years until my Breakfast in hell clone attempt is ready to taste.....

Did ya end up firing up this cider?

 

[madscientist451]

Its done fermenting, I'll taste it in the next few days, I still need to add the barrel chips.