Request: Augustiner Marzen Clone

[Johnsiii]

The link is above

ok thanks. I realized that after I sent me msg. I'm going to brew again soon so was researching the best Augustiner clone recipes.

 

[johnwpowell]

ok thanks. I realized that after I sent me msg. I'm going to brew again soon so was researching the best Augustiner clone recipes.

I haven’t tried this recipe yet but will in probably a week. Please read my notes in the recipe. I contacted Augustiner again today but they won’t give me any more info. Just having IBU or SRM would be helpful.

 

[Die_Beerery]

I’ve dialed it back to 10-15%

Still too high.

 

[johnwpowell]

Still too high.

Help a brother out. What amount would you recommend and why.

 

[Die_Beerery]

I have no idea what Augustiner uses, nor will they ever tell you. Kara-extra-hell only means light cara, which would be anything, and most likely nothing we can get. How ever I do know a thing or two about German recipes, and I can tell you any % of caramalt in a high oxygen brew will come off as too sweet. There is a recipe guideline that shows up to 10% carahell in a festival beer, but I doubt this is that. Also the caveat on the 10% is low oxygen, which lowers color ~20-30%, and does not make caramalts sickly sweet..

 

[johnwpowell]

I have no idea what Augustiner uses, nor will they ever tell you. Kara-extra-hell only means light cara, which would be anything, and most likely nothing we can get. How ever I do know a thing or two about German recipes, and I can tell you any % of caramalt in a high oxygen brew will come off as too sweet. There is a recipe guideline that shows up to 10% carahell in a festival beer, but I doubt this is that. Also the caveat on the 10% is low oxygen, which lowers color ~20-30%, and does not make caramalts sickly sweet..

Just to be clear we are talking low oxygen on the hot side?

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Yes, he is meaning low oxygen on the hot side (and through packaging actually).

 

[johnwpowell]

I have no idea what Augustiner uses, nor will they ever tell you. Kara-extra-hell only means light cara, which would be anything, and most likely nothing we can get. How ever I do know a thing or two about German recipes, and I can tell you any % of caramalt in a high oxygen brew will come off as too sweet. There is a recipe guideline that shows up to 10% carahell in a festival beer, but I doubt this is that. Also the caveat on the 10% is low oxygen, which lowers color ~20-30%, and does not make caramalts sickly sweet..

Thanks for sharing this information. Here’s an in depth article that reinforces what you said.
http://www.germanbrewing.net/docs/On_Brewing_Bavarian_Helles_v3.pdf

 

[Die_Beerery]

Thanks for sharing this information. Here’s an in depth article that reinforces what you said.
http://www.germanbrewing.net/docs/On_Brewing_Bavarian_Helles_v3.pdf

Yea, I was part of that group that wrote it.

 

[johnwpowell]

Yea, I was part of that group that wrote it.

It’s an honor to have you on this thread. Do you think we have a chance of cloning this at home? We can’t get the same grains, and the grains we can get are oxidized. I’m low oxygen from fermenter to packaging but not before.

 

[MrPowers]

It’s an honor to have you on this thread. Do you think we have a chance of cloning this at home? We can’t get the same grains, and the grains we can get are oxidized. I’m low oxygen from fermenter to packaging but not before.

You can probably get really close. Without the same grains, brewhouse, etc... it won't be Augustiner, but you can definitely make an equally good Märzen/Festbier at home.

If you want to get the latest information related to the Helles article from the german brewing forum, I suggest checking out Methods of the Low Oxygen Brewhouse - Low Oxygen Brewing (also, thanks to Die_Beerery). There is a wealth of blog/forum information on there that should help you on your quest.

 

[johnwpowell]

Update: I brewed this last weekend and it's in the fermenter. It went really well. Here's the batch Brewfather

 

[javlin624]

Doesn't look too bad! I'd cut out the carapils and hop stand though. I'm planning on brewing something similar to this soon, absolutely love Augustiner Märzen. If you have the ability to spund (naturally carbonate with remaining extract) I'd highly recommend it, it's really help me turn my lagers from tasting and looking like "home-brew" to getting very close/mimicking the real deal.

 

[javlin624]

Update: I brewed this last weekend and it's in the fermenter. It went really well. Here's the batch Brewfather

How'd it turn out?

 

[johnwpowell]

How'd it turn out?

It was just OK. I’m giving up on this for the foreseeable future

 

[javlin624]

That's a bummer, what was lacking in it?

 

[johnwpowell]

That's a bummer, what was lacking in it?

I actually caught my first infection on this one. Batch number 73. Baby vomit smell

 

[Johnsiii]

I brewed my version of it in June. It's been a year since I was at the Augustiner so it's hard for me to say how close it was to theirs, but I will say that I thoroughly enjoyed this beer as did others who drank some and I plan to brew it again in the next week or so. (It's all gone).
I used: 10lbs Pilsner, .5 lbs cara-pils, 1 lb Crystal 10, WLP820 yeast, 1 oz Hallertau first wort and 1 oz Hallertau 15 minute whirlpool. BIAB, starting with 7.74 gal water.

 

[javlin624]

I actually caught my first infection on this one. Batch number 73. Baby vomit smell

Well that's a bit worse that "Ok"! I'm planning on doing 90% barke pils / 10% carahell ~~18IBU spalter select w/ what should be my last generation of Wyeast Hellabock slurry (low attenuation austrian yeasts, fits the bill). Should get to it sometime in the next month when I clear up some fridge space.

 

[RCubed76]

Augustiner is truly my dream beer (blessed to have experienced it twice - one pint in their beer garden in 2011 and three bottles out of a take-home six-pack in 2016) and I made a version (based on JP's) that I think is going to be fantastic. This is my first lager and I made some kegging mistakes (ended up bottle conditioning, adding 4 more weeks), but other than taking more time than usual, I think this recipe is a keeper. I tasted today to check bottle-conditioning progress after two weeks and it is still pretty flat. I will probably allow it to carbonate for two more weeks before beginning the lagering phase. The taste was VERY promising - not too sweet, smooth, bready, perfect mouth-feel, just enough bittering from the hops. If you're a hophead, please know there is little to no hop flavor or aroma to this recipe, which is pretty true to style. The ONLY issue I perceived is a slight sulphur aroma, which the lagering should take care of. I dare not compare it to Augustiner because I have no access to that divine elixir, but it checks the same boxes for me. Here's my recipe for 5.5 gallons:

4# Maris Otter (for its breadiness and to combat the perceived sweetness of the pilsner)
3.5# Pilsner
1# Carahell
1# Munich Light - for body and maltiness
8 oz. Cara-Pils (dextrine) - this may prove unnecessary, but I added it for head retention
5 oz. Victory
.05 oz Chocolate (for color and a subtle dry roastiness) - with such a small amount, this may also be unnecessary
Mash at 153 F
Batch sparge
Boil 90 mins (because of the Pilsner)
1 oz Hallertauer Mittlefrueh (4% AA) - 60 mins
.25 oz Santiam (6% AA) - 60 mins - had this leftover, you could probably use any noble hops for bittering
.2 oz Hallertauer Mittlefrueh (4% AA) - 15 mins
2 pks Saflager W-34/70 - pitch and ferment low as possible for strain
I also added calcium chloride and epsom salt to RO water
Cold crashed and fined with gelatin
OG was 1.055
FG was 1.012
Plan to lager minimum of 6 weeks

 

[johnwpowell]

Augustiner is truly my dream beer (blessed to have experienced it twice - one pint in their beer garden in 2011 and three bottles out of a take-home six-pack in 2016) and I made a version (based on JP's) that I think is going to be fantastic. This is my first lager and I made some kegging mistakes (ended up bottle conditioning, adding 4 more weeks), but other than taking more time than usual, I think this recipe is a keeper. I tasted today to check bottle-conditioning progress after two weeks and it is still pretty flat. I will probably allow it to carbonate for two more weeks before beginning the lagering phase. The taste was VERY promising - not too sweet, smooth, bready, perfect mouth-feel, just enough bittering from the hops. If you're a hophead, please know there is little to no hop flavor or aroma to this recipe, which is pretty true to style. The ONLY issue I perceived is a slight sulphur aroma, which the lagering should take care of. I dare not compare it to Augustiner because I have no access to that divine elixir, but it checks the same boxes for me. Here's my recipe for 5.5 gallons:

4# Maris Otter (for its breadiness and to combat the perceived sweetness of the pilsner)
3.5# Pilsner
1# Carahell
1# Munich Light - for body and maltiness
8 oz. Cara-Pils (dextrine) - this may prove unnecessary, but I added it for head retention
5 oz. Victory
.05 oz Chocolate (for color and a subtle dry roastiness) - with such a small amount, this may also be unnecessary
Mash at 153 F
Batch sparge
Boil 90 mins (because of the Pilsner)
1 oz Hallertauer Mittlefrueh (4% AA) - 60 mins
.25 oz Santiam (6% AA) - 60 mins - had this leftover, you could probably use any noble hops for bittering
.2 oz Hallertauer Mittlefrueh (4% AA) - 15 mins
2 pks Saflager W-34/70 - pitch and ferment low as possible for strain
I also added calcium chloride and epsom salt to RO water
Cold crashed and fined with gelatin
OG was 1.055
FG was 1.012
Plan to lager minimum of 6 weeks

That’s great! Let me know how this turns out when carbonated. I’ll brew it for sure. I had given up on this recipe until now.

 

[RCubed76]

I had a problem with the flip tops on some of my bottles so some never carbed up. The ones that did produced excellent beer, but not Augustiner. However, while doing some research on this beer, I learned a couple things:
1) In Salzburg, maerzen is a) the most popular beer style, b) Salzburg maerzen is a style all it's own, lighter than German marzen and closer in style to German helles.
2) So with that info I thought maybe if Augustiner's recipe is completely hidden, possibly another Salzburg brewery may have a clone recipe of the same style to follow, which led me to Steigl Brewery's Goldbrau (which is their maerzen).
3) Then I found this: Vienna Lager Recipe - Stiegl Goldbrau | Brewgr
I don't know where this recipe came from, but you'll notice that it's mostly pilsner with some carahell. Sound familiar? To beef it up, there is vienna malt and melanoidin to mimic decoction. The hops are different, but still noble, and they are just for bittering anyway so... I'm thinking this might get us closer.
I plan to brew this with a little less hops and see what I get. It will be a while before I do so, either this summer or fall.
Anyway, just wanted to share my update. Happy brewing!

 

[mgoyne27]

I was there last summer and I have to say I whole heartedly agree. It is indescribably good. I have been searching for that recipe for a whole year.

Let me tell you after walking around Salzburg in the summer it is the best thing you ever taste

 

[alexjames23]

That’s great! Let me know how this turns out when carbonated. I’ll brew it for sure. I had given up on this recipe until now.

Just came here to say I brewed your clone JP, and it came out great. For my first go-around at a homebrewed clone of it, I'm truly impressed by it. Augustiner Oktoberfestbier is my favorite bier in Munich so I'm glad to have found this thread. Don't give up on it!

 

[monkeymath]

It seems like there's quite some confusion going on in this thread:
The Augustiner Bräu that this thread is about is not the one in Munich, but in Salzburg.
That also implies that "Märzen" does not refer to the old German beer style - a copper to amber lager of slightly increased strength -, but to the Austrian beer style which is roughly equivalent to a German Helles.

And for the record, Augustiner Oktoberfestbier belongs to neither of these beer styles, but it's a modern Festbier.

 

[DeanRIowa]

I have attempted multiple batches to clone the Salzburg, Austria - Augustiner Bräu Kloster Mülln Märzen beer. This beer is my favorite beer as it holds memories of my youth from when I studied in Salzburg.

For this batch recipe I am adding a bit Melanoidin malt as my last batch needed a bit of a malty bump. I am also switching to kegging using Oxebar kegs and my first attempt at reducing oxygen in transfers.

I plan to brew this attempt over Thanksgiving.

Feel free to critique as I only want to make it better.

My Augustiner Bräu Mülln Märzen Clone

German Grains (approx color MCU 7)

Pilsen(85%)​

Carahell(8%)​

CaraPils(5%)​

Melanoidin(2%)​

German Hops (19 IBU)

Hallertau Mittelfruh​

Spalt​

Yeast:

Omega Yeast - OYL-114 Bayern Lager​

possibly an Munich Augustiner strain​

I plan to do a yeast starter, use the Hockkurz mash schedule, ferment in the low 50s, a diacetly rest, and lager for a couple of months. I guess I will have to drink Stiegl Goldbrau until completed.

 

[rmr9]

I really enjoyed the Augustiner in Salzburg when I visited in September. Amazing beer and a pretzel with caraway seeds…awesome stuff! I may take a crack at the recipe above. I have plans to brew a German style märzen soon, might be nice to follow it up quickly with an Austrian style märzen.

 

[Broothru]

It seems like there's quite some confusion going on in this thread:
The Augustiner Bräu that this thread is about is not the one in Munich, but in Salzburg.
That also implies that "Märzen" does not refer to the old German beer style - a copper to amber lager of slightly increased strength -, but to the Austrian beer style which is roughly equivalent to a German Helles.

And for the record, Augustiner Oktoberfestbier belongs to neither of these beer styles, but it's a modern Festbier.

I’ve been playing with this recipe for a few days in BeerSmith. Stylistically it could fit in several different BJCP styles, based on some minor recipe tweaks. The one that seems most closely replicated is 6A Marzen, though 2oz Blackprinze was needed to get the color within range.

The ‘truest’ to recipe was 5C German Helles Exportbier which eliminates the need for Blackprinze but also requires reducing base malt to bring OG and ABV down to guideline parameters.

4B Festbier met all parameters by eliminating Blackprinze and reducing carafoam and carahell.

Overall, with the tweaks this recipe could produce solid beers in several categories. But I have to agree with @monkeymath that the Augustiner Brau (Salzburg) is distinct from Augustiner Oktoberfestbier. There is no BJCP category specific to Austrian beer, though German Helles is quite close. The posted recipe seems to fit Helles Exportbier nicely with minor tweaks.

 

[rmr9]

I have attempted multiple batches to clone the Salzburg, Austria - Augustiner Bräu Kloster Mülln Märzen beer. This beer is my favorite beer as it holds memories of my youth from when I studied in Salzburg.

For this batch recipe I am adding a bit Melanoidin malt as my last batch needed a bit of a malty bump. I am also switching to kegging using Oxebar kegs and my first attempt at reducing oxygen in transfers.

I plan to brew this attempt over Thanksgiving.

Feel free to critique as I only want to make it better.

My Augustiner Bräu Mülln Märzen Clone

German Grains (approx color MCU 7)

Pilsen(85%)​

Carahell(8%)​

CaraPils(5%)​

Melanoidin(2%)​

German Hops (19 IBU)

Hallertau Mittelfruh​

Spalt​

Yeast:

Omega Yeast - OYL-114 Bayern Lager​

possibly an Munich Augustiner strain​

I plan to do a yeast starter, use the Hockkurz mash schedule, ferment in the low 50s, a diacetly rest, and lager for a couple of months. I guess I will have to drink Stiegl Goldbrau until completed.

Did you ever take a crack at this batch?

 

[Broothru]

Did you ever take a crack at this batch?

Since reviewing this thread, it’s at the top of my ’To Brew’ list. I have all the ingredients on hand, ready to go. What I lack is the time and the outside weather to pull off a proper outdoor brew day.