Removing FWH before boil

[Kmcogar]

I was thinking of trying something different. Well, I'm sure someone has done this in the brewing world, so I am looking for insight. I was thinking i would drop...lets say an ounce in my runnings and let them steep for 30minutes at 160 F. Then raise the temp to 180 F and drop in another ounce, let them steep for 30 minutes. Then raise it to 200 F and drop another ounce and steep for 30 minutes. Then, when it gets to a boil, remove the hops. Then i would either do a regular 60 minute additions/10minutes....so on.... or do late addition hops only.

-would these be a waste of hops?
-how much bitterness could this add? Any way to calculate?
-which process should I do? Reg or late hops only
-has anyone done this already?
-could this be a waste of time? (Extra 1.5 hours)

And any other questions you can brew up...thanks for your opinions!

I was thinking of making a smooth pale ale with lots of hop flavors. But i dont want the bitterness to overwhelm that batch

 

[max384]

My opinion is that this is a waste of hops and money. By adding them and then removing them before the boil, you add some hop character and bitterness (whatever seeps out of your bag), but remove most of the hops before boil, only to add more hops. Why not either just add less FWH and keep them in the whole time?

 

[CUrchin]

IMO it would be a waste of hops- I'd rather save the hops for whirlpool rather than preboil steep and pull.

 

[slym2none]

Ditto to the above.

 

[Kmcogar]

Hops are not an issue. I have an abundance. I was under the impression fwh and late addition hops would add a smoother bittering flavor vs a harsher flavor. I imagine this flavoring may be good. I dunno, like i said i have a ton of hops i gotta use. May as well experiment with them

 

[Calder]

Just move your regular 60 minute hops to FWH and proceed as normal, and see how it turns out.

 

[day_trippr]

Does it seem to anyone else that the whole FWH thing is a BS waste of hops?

Cheers!

 

[slym2none]

Does it seem to anyone else that the whole FWH thing is a BS waste of hops?

Cheers!

As soon as a consensus is reached on whether FWH'ing gives off more IBUs, less IBUs, or the same amount, I'll start taking it seriously. Until then, I will boil my hops for 60 minutes for my bittering charge.

:fro:

 

[AF1HomeBrew]

Just move your regular 60 minute hops to FWH and proceed as normal, and see how it turns out.

I agree. Let us know how it turns out. I see Gordon Strong using FWH in quite a few of the recipes in his Modern Homebrew Recipes book (West Coast Blonde,Ordinary Bitter, Pride of Warwick Bitter,English Pale Ale,American Wheat Beer, American Amber Ale, Killer Kolsch, Robust Cream Ale,Classic Bonde Ale, Old School Barleywine,Malt Liqour, Schwarzbier, The Big O (Belgian),The Gnome (Belgian),Odds and Ends Saison, Flanders Red, Llamarada Stout, American Dubbel Brown,etc). Although I don't believe he says to remove the hops. I'm going to try and brew a few of those recipes in the next 2-3 months unless Life happens again.

 

[kh54s10]

Does it seem to anyone else that the whole FWH thing is a BS waste of hops?

Cheers!

I do not agree. I get a nice bitterness with less harshness when doing a FWH.

The idea of multiple FWH additions seems like a ton of work for little difference. I would just do a FWH or a 60 min addition or both but not the multiple FWH additions.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm also on the "it's a waste" side of the fence.

FWH are bittering hops, hence to give you bittering, they should remain in the boil for the duration the recipe was calculated for. Steeping at lower temps, then removing will undoubtedly reduce oil extraction. Using more hops can compensate for that shortcoming and you can still end up with the same IBUs.

If you have an abundance of hops and think your method will get you something special, by all means, do it. And please let us know how your experiment fared.

 

[jcav]

Yea since you have an abundance of hops and you don't care about using them, your not wasting them. You are then experimenting with a different way of doing it. You may as well try it and see how it turns out. Then do post and tell us about it. Who knows you may be on to something here.....You may be breaking new ground and get an awesome return on flavor and soft bitterness. You, and we will never know until you try it.

John

 

[Calder]

Does it seem to anyone else that the whole FWH thing is a BS waste of hops?

I tried it with also using 60 minute hops and thought the same thing. But I have done a number of brews now with only using FWH, and have been very surprised by the results. It takes more hops as I dial them in as 30 minute hops, but the beers have been great. I am now using FWH as my standard bittering addition for all my IPAs//PAs, and no longer have 60 minute additions.

I like the result. I think it takes the edge off the bittering, but still balances the beer. I think you need to try it it in a few beers, not just one, to get a feeling of what it does.

It took me a while to be convinced it made a difference, so it is subtle, but I think I prefer it.

....... and FWH should be left in for the whole boil.

 

[orangehero]

It takes more hops as I dial them in as 30 minute hops, but the beers have been great.

How are they like 30 minute hops requiring you to use more? The utilization should be about 10% more than if added at start of boil.

 

[slym2none]

How are they like 30 minute hops requiring you to use more? The utilization should be about 10% more than if added at start of boil.

That's why I don't trust this yet. Some sources say it gives more IBUs than a 60-minute boil (which makes sense to me) and some say it gives less (which doesn't).

 

[GaBrewZoo]

I have heard that Heady Topper doesn't get any hops put in during the boil. Just FWH and whirlpool and DH. I have just been using FWH, and my beers seem a little smoother. And I just leave them in through the boil.

 

[slym2none]

I heard there are NO hops in their boil - they use a hopshot for bittering, & all actual hops are after flameout.

 

[GaBrewZoo]

Okay. Sorry. Corrected. Again.

 

[slym2none]

Okay. Sorry. Corrected. Again.

Hey, I don't know that for sure. That's a comment coming from an NC boy talking about a New England beer. It's just what I have heard/read.

 

[joshesmusica]

It took me a while to be convinced it made a difference, so it is subtle, but I think I prefer it.

I think this part is what stands out to me. There are very few people doing side by side blind tests to the impact a FWH has over a 60-min addition. Almost everything I have read up to now is anecdotal, and a lot of people talk about it in this way exactly. That being they've convinced themselves it makes a difference. Perception is huge in our decision-making when it comes to our brewing techniques. Here's the one experiment I've seen that the participants were completely blind to the variable being tested:

http://brulosophy.com/2015/07/06/the-first-wort-hop-effect-exbeeriment-results/

It seems people are confused as to why the OP would want to try this experiment, stating that the purpose of the FWH is about the bitterness. I'm wondering if he's still of the old school of thought regarding the FWH that it was meant as a replacement for the flavor hops additions?

 

[jcav]

Interesting article joshesmusica, that's what I was getting at, to try it and see what happens. This side by side experiment is the best way to see the difference in the same beer if you have the time. After that I guess it really comes down to the home brewer's personal tastes, to see which they prefer and like to drink..... Thanks for posting the article!

John

 

[Kmcogar]

Yea since you have an abundance of hops and you don't care about using them, your not wasting them. You are then experimenting with a different way of doing it. You may as well try it and see how it turns out. Then do post and tell us about it. Who knows you may be on to something here.....You may be breaking new ground and get an awesome return on flavor and soft bitterness. You, and we will never know until you try it.



John

Thanks for the support. Ill try it and hope for a award winner! Cheers