HI Guys, I have been reading about brewing and the purity law Reinheitsgebot. Now being a noob full grain brewer its super to be able to call my beer a pure Reinheitsgebot beer. Now my Question, does adding priming sugars break the purity law and if so how do you carbonate your beer if you want a pure Reinheitsgebot beer ?
Reinheitsgebot or not ?
- Thread starter OomVlam
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk:
VikeMan
It ain't all burritos and strippers, my friend.
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2010
- Messages
- 5,968
- Reaction score
- 6,216
No sugar allowed. You can carbonate by retaining CO2 at the end of fermentation (spunding), by adding fermenting wort to the finished beer (krausening), by adding not-yet-fermenting wort (speise), or by force carbonating with CO2 that has been captured from the brewing process.
That's how it is!
This is btw. A sh**ty law and not even an actual law anymore here in Germany, thanks to the EU.
It is a huge limitation to all the nice things that can be brewed with. Say no to the Reinheitsgebot!!!!
Revolution!!!!
Toxxyc
New and loving it
I've brewed beers following the Reinheitsgebod. It's nice. It's a PITA though. I much prefer brewing what I like, how I like, to drink the beer I like.
Adding priming sugar to an ale doesn't break the Reinheitsgebot but you must list the ingredient in the ingredients list. Also, if you are a brewer in Bavaria or Baden–Württemberg you cannot add sugar to an Ale in any case (Bavaria and Baden–Württemberg have more restrictive rules than the rest of Germany).
You cannot add lactic acid to the mash, but you can buy Weyermann malt which is sprayed with lactic acid, that's compliant with the Reinheitsgebot.
You cannot add gypsum and calcium chloride to the mash, but you can add those salts to the brew water (see the difference?! One is rein, the other isn't!)
You can use hop pellets and hop extract if the solvent is natural (such as good old alcohol, and why should one want to use anything else, one might ask).
You can use microplastics (PVPP) but you must filter it with mechanical filters (such as diatomaceous earth) just like anywhere.
You can use chlorinated water, that's rein.
You can use hops during boiling or before boiling, that's rein, but you cannot use hops during or after fermentation (dry hopping), that's not rein.
"Zinc cannot be provided directly by addition of ZnSO4 or ZnCl2, but running the wort through piping or over lauter screens containing zinc can provide the needed trace amounts "
Carbon dioxide for beer carbonation must come from fermentation, that's rein. Carbon dioxide with a different origin can be used for moving and serving beer, that is OK.
https://www.morebeer.com/articles/R...Law_Bavaria_1516_Malt_Barley_Water_Hops_Yeast
[If that reminds you of Kosher or Halal rules, you are not alone ]
You cannot add lactic acid to the mash, but you can buy Weyermann malt which is sprayed with lactic acid, that's compliant with the Reinheitsgebot.
You cannot add gypsum and calcium chloride to the mash, but you can add those salts to the brew water (see the difference?! One is rein, the other isn't!)
You can use hop pellets and hop extract if the solvent is natural (such as good old alcohol, and why should one want to use anything else, one might ask).
You can use microplastics (PVPP) but you must filter it with mechanical filters (such as diatomaceous earth) just like anywhere.
You can use chlorinated water, that's rein.
You can use hops during boiling or before boiling, that's rein, but you cannot use hops during or after fermentation (dry hopping), that's not rein.
"Zinc cannot be provided directly by addition of ZnSO4 or ZnCl2, but running the wort through piping or over lauter screens containing zinc can provide the needed trace amounts "
Carbon dioxide for beer carbonation must come from fermentation, that's rein. Carbon dioxide with a different origin can be used for moving and serving beer, that is OK.
https://www.morebeer.com/articles/R...Law_Bavaria_1516_Malt_Barley_Water_Hops_Yeast
[If that reminds you of Kosher or Halal rules, you are not alone
]In my opinion, the only thing that differentiates a Reinheitsgebot beer from another beer, from a quality point of view, is the assurance that no sulphite is used.
The use of sulphite is actually the reason why my LODO experiments are probably years away... I don't want to offer a beer to somebody saying "it contains sulphides" as a compulsory mention. And, frankly, any amount of sulfites above what can be naturally occurring in a fermentation, or just slightly more, is highly suspect.
The use of sulphite is actually the reason why my LODO experiments are probably years away... I don't want to offer a beer to somebody saying "it contains sulphides" as a compulsory mention. And, frankly, any amount of sulfites above what can be naturally occurring in a fermentation, or just slightly more, is highly suspect.
There is some stuff in the article which is not correct. The EU basically unrooted the reinheitsgebot, so it's technically not there anymore. And for the sugar, nope, not allowed.Adding priming sugar to an ale doesn't break the Reinheitsgebot but you must list the ingredient in the ingredients list. Also, if you are a brewer in Bavaria or Baden–Württemberg you cannot add sugar to an Ale in any case (Bavaria and Baden–Württemberg have more restrictive rules than the rest of Germany).
You cannot add lactic acid to the mash, but you can buy Weyermann malt which is sprayed with lactic acid, that's compliant with the Reinheitsgebot.
You cannot add gypsum and calcium chloride to the mash, but you can add those salts to the brew water (see the difference?! One is rein, the other isn't!)
You can use hop pellets and hop extract if the solvent is natural (such as good old alcohol, and why should one want to use anything else, one might ask).
You can use microplastics (PVPP) but you must filter it with mechanical filters (such as diatomaceous earth) just like anywhere.
You can use chlorinated water, that's rein.
You can use hops during boiling or before boiling, that's rein, but you cannot use hops during or after fermentation (dry hopping), that's not rein.
"Zinc cannot be provided directly by addition of ZnSO4 or ZnCl2, but running the wort through piping or over lauter screens containing zinc can provide the needed trace amounts "
Carbon dioxide for beer carbonation must come from fermentation, that's rein. Carbon dioxide with a different origin can be used for moving and serving beer, that is OK.
https://www.morebeer.com/articles/R...Law_Bavaria_1516_Malt_Barley_Water_Hops_Yeast
[If that reminds you of Kosher or Halal rules, you are not alone
FromZwolle
I don't want to be cremated, I want to be malted.
dme?
I was just thinking this reminds me of when my wife tried to go kosher. It lasted about a month.[If that reminds you of Kosher or Halal rules, you are not alone
I thought this was easy yes but in fact everything I've found googling says no it is not ok to use malt extract. Some variation on spunding is going to be required.
Can you please clarify?
The EU unrooted the protectionist effects of the Reinheitsgebot. Germany would not be able to prevent "beer" from other countries to be called "beer". This is merely a commodity-related normation ("termine merceologico" we would say in Italy: what term defines what product, what product can be sold under which denomination).
But Germany still regulates the specific commercial diction "Gebraut nach dem Reinheitsgebot". This is a "mark" that can be applied only according to the German law. An Italian producer, even if it complied with the norm (which in many case certainly happens) cannot stick that label to his beer.
Basically, the EU laws dictates what you can brew in Germany, and what you can sell in Germany, but not what you can mark as "Gebraut nach dem Reinheitsgebot". The EU states uniform laws in Europe. If sugar is admitted in Belgium or France, it is absolutely also admitted in German beers. But the EU doesn't rule what is "rein" and what is not, which is important from a commercial point of view.
Also, what is "rein" and what is not is different (if we except Bavaria) for beers sold in Germany and for beer sold abroad. A beer from a non-Bavarian producer can be termed "rein" if it is sold in Italy, and not "rein" if it is sold in Germany (in the which case it cannot be sold as "beer", in fact). A non-Bavarian producer can have two different products selling in Germany and abroad with the same label.
This source also states ales can use other adjuncts and sugar:
https://patto1ro.home.xs4all.nl/reinheit.htm
As a side note, I would like to point out that Bavaria has the Protected Denomination of Origin "Bayerisches Beer". That answers to another set of rules, probably much more important for Bavarian producers, in the long run, than Reinheitsgebot.
Last edited:
There is no "rein", you made that up.
Gebraut nach dem Reinheitsgebot is just a label that says "brewed according to the reinheitsgebot", it does not say anything more. It is not legally binding or a requirement or whatever. It is just something big breweries put on to their labels to look and sound fancy, that is all. No real value. No law behind it, nothing.
It is like I say this is the Humpfdi Dumpfdi law: Brew the beer while standing on one leg and chanting the national hymn of Simbabwe backwards.
I can then say, i Brewed my beer according to the Humpfdi Dumpfdy law if I want to. Or maybe I don't.
Last edited:
brewdude88
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2019
- Messages
- 176
- Reaction score
- 139
IMO, there are much bigger concerns than the purity law from before they even knew yeast existed.
I say put your time, energy and money into eliminating oxygen exposure first, then into the fermentation temperature control and plastic gear elimination.
The efforts I've made to achieve the above all had the most notable impact on the quality of my beer. As far as ingredients, I simply use whatever proves to make my beer better (whirfloc for example)...
I say put your time, energy and money into eliminating oxygen exposure first, then into the fermentation temperature control and plastic gear elimination.
The efforts I've made to achieve the above all had the most notable impact on the quality of my beer. As far as ingredients, I simply use whatever proves to make my beer better (whirfloc for example)...
Do you mean that you can put let's say ascorbic acid or sodium metabisulphite in a beer and label it "Gebraut nach dem Reinheitsgebot" and it all is legal? Or pepper?
For what I know, no, you cannot. There is a legal discipline behind the claim. Just like there is a legal discipline behind a "no sugar added" or "low-fat" claim in a food. You cannot just write on your label whatever you feel is fancy.
The EU brought a new freedom to the German producer and importer, solely as far as production and sale is concerned. Which means that now a German producer can produce a lager with rice or wheat or corn and sell it as "beer" (this could not happen in Germany before the EU liberalization). But that beer cannot absolutely cannot be sold as "Gebraut nach dem Reinheitsgebot" because that implies there is no corn or rice in the ingredients, no sugar in a lager, no spices besides hop in a lager, no anti-oxidant or anti-fermentative added to any beer etc.
Every beer that sports that particular diction on the label must observe the regulations and the restrictions that are implied in that label, which has a legal value and a legal regulation.
A German producer is free to produce a Belgian-style ale or a British-style ale but it cannot be marked as "rein".
From a commercial point of view, the Reinheitsgebot claim became more important, and not less, after 1987, because while before every German beer had to comply with the norm, at least as far as internal distribution was concerned [non-Bavarian producers could deviate from the norms for export beer], after 1987 the legal framework changed and became the same as for all the EU, and since then the "Reinheitsgebot" claim indicates that that beer is made according to the old set of rules, and not to the new one.
You cannot see a German beer that has "rice" in the ingredients and, at the same time, the Reinheitsgebot claim in the label. But you can (or could) find a German beer made with rice or corn, or coloured with E150 (caramel), and no Reinheit claim.
Last edited:
As a side note, Italy had very restrictive beer laws before the EU liberalization in 1987.
Only barley could be used, beer had to be compulsorily clarified and no secondary fermentation was allowed.
Which means Italian producers were forbidden to make wheat beers, or to use corn and rice, and they could not make any Belgian style double and triple etc. or any beer with yeast and sugar in the bottle.
On the other hand, ascorbic acid and sulphite were allowed in Italy whereas they were not in Germany (now they are also in Germany, naturally, but without the "Reinheit" claim).
After 1987 a whole new world opened for Italian producers, and a host of small craft producers were born, which wasn't economically possible before, because there was only one "style", basically, which could be brewed.
Only barley could be used, beer had to be compulsorily clarified and no secondary fermentation was allowed.
Which means Italian producers were forbidden to make wheat beers, or to use corn and rice, and they could not make any Belgian style double and triple etc. or any beer with yeast and sugar in the bottle.
On the other hand, ascorbic acid and sulphite were allowed in Italy whereas they were not in Germany (now they are also in Germany, naturally, but without the "Reinheit" claim).
After 1987 a whole new world opened for Italian producers, and a host of small craft producers were born, which wasn't economically possible before, because there was only one "style", basically, which could be brewed.
Last edited:
I was wondering whether the Reinheitsgebot label can be sported only by a German producer, by law. I think it is so, there must be some protection at EU level. Else, many non-German producers, who happen to tick all the boxes, would also make the claim in the label, a claim which certainly has a noticeable commercial value.
For instance, the Italian producer Birra Vismara claims on their website that they produce the beer according to the Reinheitsgebot, but don't write it on the label.
https://www.birravismara.com/la-birra-vismara
For instance, the Italian producer Birra Vismara claims on their website that they produce the beer according to the Reinheitsgebot, but don't write it on the label.
https://www.birravismara.com/la-birra-vismara
Last edited:
I found this text: a German producer, Erdinger, had to modify their labeling because they made the claim "gebraut.... von 1516" and they could not, they can only claim without the 1516 date.
https://www.lebensmittelklarheit.de...it-dem-reinheitsgebot-von-1516-auf-weizenbier
https://www.lebensmittelklarheit.de...it-dem-reinheitsgebot-von-1516-auf-weizenbier
Found, I think, the text of the law governing German beer today.
I don't know if this is useful, but it might be.
Sugar is allowed in beer which is fermented only with high-fermenting yeasts in this norm.
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bierstdb/BJNR701350931.html
My problem is, this norm doesn't norm the use of the Reinheitsgebot "claim". This is just the general norm on general beer. This probably also opens a possible conflict with EU norms, who don't restrict the use of sugar to ales for what I know.
I saw several sources saying that sugar is allowed in ales but when one looks for the actual source, it's obviously difficult for me.
I think this is overall extremely interesting, though, because the Reinheitsgebot claim has a great importance in the brewing world and a great commercial value.
From what I get so far, a German brewery can produce a Belgian Tripel, with sugar, and sell it in Belgium with the diction "Gebraut nach dem Reinheitsgebot". But a Belgian brewer cannot sell a Tripel in Germany with the same diction.
Last edited:
For those who are interested, the text of the sentence of 1987 by the European Court of Justice, whereby Germany lost the possibility to prevent foreing brewers to call "beer" their beer sold in Germany.
https://www.biicl.org/files/2076_c-14-02.pdf
https://www.biicl.org/files/2076_c-14-02.pdf
Mate, I think you are a tiny bit obsessed
This Reinheitsgebot is not a law here in Germany. There was a time when it was like this, but these times have long passed. It is just a label that brands might want to attach to their beer to look more fancy or whatever. It is nothing more than this.
This Reinheitsgebot is not a law here in Germany. There was a time when it was like this, but these times have long passed. It is just a label that brands might want to attach to their beer to look more fancy or whatever. It is nothing more than this.
@Miraculix
It's not a law but it's a marketing claim which you cannot make if you don't adhere to a certain disciplinary of production. As I showed you, Erdinger had to change the claim and the label because the German authority for competition (or was it for the protection of consumers) forced them to, and that means there are some rules (if not "laws") governing it and some authority which governs its proper use.
But it's true that I am "obsessed" with disciplinaries of production, DOPs, PGI, etc!
By the way, Germany has two protected beers: Muenchner Bier PGI and Koelsch PGI.
The disciplinary of production for these PGI beers incorporates the Reinheitsgebot, which again means that there absolutely is a legal value to the Reinheitsgebot expression.
It's not a law but it's a marketing claim which you cannot make if you don't adhere to a certain disciplinary of production. As I showed you, Erdinger had to change the claim and the label because the German authority for competition (or was it for the protection of consumers) forced them to, and that means there are some rules (if not "laws") governing it and some authority which governs its proper use.
But it's true that I am "obsessed" with disciplinaries of production, DOPs, PGI, etc!
By the way, Germany has two protected beers: Muenchner Bier PGI and Koelsch PGI.
The disciplinary of production for these PGI beers incorporates the Reinheitsgebot, which again means that there absolutely is a legal value to the Reinheitsgebot expression.
Last edited:
Actually I just found there are at least 10 PGI Beers in Germany:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/food-farm...ty-labels/geographical-indications-register/#
Oktoberfestbier is in "applied" state, the other nine appear to be in force. One must add " Kölsch" to the list below, which is in force. So 10 PGI and 1 candidate.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/food-farm...ty-labels/geographical-indications-register/#
Oktoberfestbier is in "applied" state, the other nine appear to be in force. One must add " Kölsch" to the list below, which is in force. So 10 PGI and 1 candidate.
Münchener Bier |
Oktoberfestbier |
Bayerisches Bier |
Hofer Bier |
Kulmbacher Bier |
Bremer Bier |
Münchener Bier |
Dortmunder Bier |
Mainfranken Bier |
Reuther Bier |
Similar threads
