Red Star

[RedStone]

Howdi cider folks -

I made a batch of apple juice cider - mostly to get a handle on the yeasts to use. Starting point was about 1070 with a Red Star champagne yeast. I wanted to ferment to 1020 or so, then bottle which is what I did. Wow. I used the grolsch top and filled a few plastic bottles. In ONE day, I had gushers. Has anyone run into that? I know folks like the Ale yeasts but I got a bunch of the red stars from my sister in the states. I want to figure out all of the yeasts and Red Star first. I did the same thing last month - small batch - then put right in cold fridge. Tasted very good and had nice carb going. But if I make a big batch with my apples this fall, I cannot store in the fridge. I need to get this down.

So, Red Star - let it stand for a day then pasteurize? and live iwth the results. I dont want my kids to die walking buy my bottles of cider. This time I released the pressure of the grolsch tops and refilled with my plastic, then pastueurized right away. But I need to get a system down.

 

[Yooper]

Champagne yeast and many other Red Star wine yeast strains can easily ferment apple cider/juice to .990. It sounds like a recipe for bottle bombs to me.

I'd probably put one in a plastic soda bottle as a tester and pasteurize the glass bottles as soon as the soda bottle became firm if I was going to try to bottle it at 1.020 (but I"d never try).

 

[bernardsmith]

Why don't you let the yeast do what it has evolved to do and ferment the sugars dry, then age and rack the cider off the yeast so that there is no significant yeast colony left in the cider and then stabilize. You can then add as much sugar as you want and all the sugar will be left to offer you the sweetness you are looking for. That process gives you perfect control over the sweetness.

 

[RedStone]

Okay - flirting with 1020 is not a good idea if you want to bottle. Some other threads I've read said its just a matter of pasteurizing. The question is when? I did ferment dry and found it not as as satisfying frankly. I think going to 1010-1020 tastes better. Why go through all this work and not get what you want. Remember these are small batches to find out how things work for a beginner.

The Goal - semi-sweet cider, bubbly, in a bottle. Its not so easy I can see. I dont like dry wine and I dont like dry cider. It needs to be north of 1010 to make sense for me to do it.

Yooper - thanks for the reply. Folks here are great. I am finding that Red Star is not a set-it-forget-it. If you want carb, be ready to pasteurize in less than a day at the sweetness I am looking for. Seriously.

Bernardsmit - thanks to you as well. Going dry is an acquired taste. When I get there and anyone I know does, then I will. I did that with my very first batch of home-pressed, organic apples from my yard. It didnt taste good. It just didn't. Backsweetening is an option but I'd like to avoid it if I can.

Thanks again.

 

[z-bob]

Backsweeten it at serving time; add a little squirt of simple syrup.

Or you can ferment it dry, stabilize it with potassium sorbate, sweeten it to taste, and either force-carbonate it or drink it without bubbles.

 

[Zymomancer]

Has anyone done a side-by-side comparison of these two methods and noticed differences?

• Add sugar at the beginning, then stabilize when SG is achieved for desired sweetness. (What the OP seems to be doing)
• Ferment dry, stabilize, then add the same amount of sugar. (What several people in this thread suggest)

Assume for simplicity and safety's sake that no carbonation is wanted.

Theoretically you'd get the same alcohol content and sweetness, but in the first case the majority of sweetness would be coming from not-yet-fermented fructose in the juice whereas in the latter case it's all sucrose or whatever type of sugar you're adding. Just wondering if anyone knows if there's a difference in taste in the end result.

I also just realized if you're picky about fructose vs. sucrose you could always sweeten with FAJC... so maybe it's not really important to do it one way or the other?

 

[Maylar]

• Add sugar at the beginning, then stabilize when SG is achieved for desired sweetness. (What the OP seems to be doing)
• Ferment dry, stabilize, then add the same amount of sugar. (What several people in this thread suggest)

Problem with that is "stabilizing". You'd have to heat pasteurize the cider to stop fermentation. Adding chemicals like potassium sorbate is not effective if the fermentation is still active.

 

[MindenMan]

I'm with "da Yooper" on this one. There are a few different ways to get what you want but not all of them are safe. Trying to pasteurize before primary fermentation has stopped is a really bad idea safety wise. You don't like dry cider, no problem, ferment dry and back sweeten later. Here is an idea: before priming for carbonation, back sweeten to a level you like, then add the priming sugar and pay very close attention to your batch. I have been touting PET (soda) BOTTLES as testers for a long time and still do. If you can get 7 oz bottles you lose less during the testing phase of carbonation levels in the bottle. I do make sweet-fizzy cider occasionally, and that is my method. A fuzzy towel in the bottom of the pot with bottles and tepid water slowly raised until the internal temp of the bottles is at least 150*F (once again a PET bottle with plain water in it works as a tester), make sure the pot is covered and the lid has some sort of weight on it; cans of food or beverage work well and let the entire pot cool off with the bottles. There are some that pull the bottles as soon as the internal temp is reached and start the next batch into very warm water to save time. I have only had 1 bottle of cider ever blow up ,so I am chalking that up to a bad bottle. Regardless of all else, always put safety first because a new batch of cider costs a lot less than a trip to the hospital.