Red IPA - Grain bill critique and hop suggestions wanted

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The_Gerbil_Brewer

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So brewing up a 10 gallon batch of Red IPA with a buddy this weekend. Initial grain bill idea below - any suggestions or criticisms very much welcome!

If my LHBS has Galaxy hops available I'm thinking of trying an all-Aussie/NZD hop schedule but plan to head there with a back up plan (in which case anything goes). Any suggestions on AUS/NZD hop and/or American hop schedule? Thinking a 1:1 BU/GU ratio so aiming for about 65 calculated IBUs.

22lb American 2-row Pale
1lb Munich
1lb CaraRed
12oz Crystal 40
8oz Biscuit
4oz Roasted Barley
8oz Flaked Oats

Hops: TBD (thinking a good amount of Whirlpool hops and/or hopback to get some big hop flavor)

Yeast: Either WLP001 or SAF-05
 
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The_Gerbil_Brewer

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So finalized the recipe for the first attempt at this. Tweaked the grain bill a bit and went with Australian and New Zealand Hops, the bulk of which were whirlpool additions. Fermenting away as I type.

10 Gallon Batch

22lbs Maris Otter
2lbs Munich 1
1lb CaraRed
8oz Belgium Biscuit
8oz Crystal 40
4oz Crystal 120
4oz Roasted Barley (525L)

1oz Topaz Pellets 16% - 60 min
1oz Motueka Pellets 6.7% - 5 min
1oz Topaz Pellets & 1oz Motueka Pellets- flameout and whirlpool roughly 15min (temp dropped from 212 to 185 over this period. Turned immersion chiller on to knock down to 145 (about 15 min)
1oz Topaz Pellets & 1oz Motueka Pellets-whirlpool at 145F without chiller on for 10 minutes and then chilled down to pitching temp.

3, 11.5g packets of SA-05 rehydrated and pitched at 68F. Aerated with O2.
 

chickypad

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The grainbill looks pretty good to me. What are the specs on that though, seems kinda low on the IBU, and maybe overall hops, for an IPA? or imperial red I guess you'd call it.
 
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The_Gerbil_Brewer

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The grainbill looks pretty good to me. What are the specs on that though, seems kinda low on the IBU, and maybe overall hops, for an IPA? or imperial red I guess you'd call it.
I've been doing some reading on whirlpool hopping and the concensus seems to be you get a fair bit of isomerization in the whirlpool without losing all the aroma and flavor compounds the boil. If I remember correctly the estimate is 10% utilization, so bitterness somewhere between 10 and 20 min additions. If I use 20 minutes for the first whirlpool additions and 10 minutes for the second whirlpool additions I get a calc of 57 IBUs, which is a BU/GU ratio of .81 (OG was 1.070. Definitely going to be a trial and error with the late hop additions. Definitely could end up being more of an imperial red than a red IPA.

I did a session IPA with only .25oz of hops at 60 min and everything else in the whirlpool and it turned out with some great hoppiness and enough bitterness to balance... that said, that was 3.25% so who knows how it will be with a beer double the strength! Will definitely report on the bitterness once it's kegged up.

I'm a little concerned the color is going to be more of a light amber than a rich red (which what I was hoping it would be) but I won't know until the yeast stop doing their thing (looks like mud with all the yeast going crazy in the carboys). Will post pictures and solicit feedback once it's done... really want to tweak to get a brilliant red, smooth hop packed beer!
 

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I like the general grainbill, but probably would have used US 2 row for less of a "bready" taste. I like the amounts of the specialty grains a lot.

I made a red IPA, I called it IRA as "red pale" sounds weird. Anyway, I don't have that recipe in front of me but I'm sure it had a similar amount of darker crystal and maybe a wee bit of pale chocolate instead of the roasted barley and it had a distinct red hue to it. It was a house favorite.
 

chickypad

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I've been doing some reading on whirlpool hopping and the concensus seems to be you get a fair bit of isomerization in the whirlpool without losing all the aroma and flavor compounds the boil. If I remember correctly the estimate is 10% utilization, so bitterness somewhere between 10 and 20 min additions. If I use 20 minutes for the first whirlpool additions and 10 minutes for the second whirlpool additions I get a calc of 57 IBUs, which is a BU/GU ratio of .81 (OG was 1.070. Definitely going to be a trial and error with the late hop additions. Definitely could end up being more of an imperial red than a red IPA.
I'm only starting to experiment with whirpooling and the calculations myself. My understanding also is that the utilization was similar to a 15 min addition, but that's for a longer whirlpool at higher temp. Beersmith is now calculating those additions, and it does give me very similar values for your first whirlpool additions if you enter as 15 min boil or 45 min steep. For only a 15 min steep it drops to about half that. I also thought I read that under 150* you don't get any appreciable bittering but I could be wrong on that. If your second whirlpool doesn't count, then I get 39 IBU total (**edit for re-reading, if you count that first one as a 30 min whirlpool I get 44 IBU**). I guess we'll find out how it actually tastes in a few wks!

As for color I also expect you will be good. I just kicked a keg of what I'm calling an imperial amber with similar grainbill only using 2 row, vienna in place of Munich, crystal was special B in similar proportion to your 120 and all C-40 subbed for your carared+40, then a few ounces chocolate instead of roasted barley. It was a nice red color.
 
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The_Gerbil_Brewer

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I'm only starting to experiment with whirpooling and the calculations myself. My understanding also is that the utilization was similar to a 15 min addition, but that's for a longer whirlpool at higher temp. Beersmith is now calculating those additions, and it does give me very similar values for your first whirlpool additions if you enter as 15 min boil or 45 min steep. For only a 15 min steep it drops to about half that. I also thought I read that under 150* you don't get any appreciable bittering but I could be wrong on that. If your second whirlpool doesn't count, then I get 39 IBU total (**edit for re-reading, if you count that first one as a 30 min whirlpool I get 44 IBU**). I guess we'll find out how it actually tastes in a few wks!

As for color I also expect you will be good. I just kicked a keg of what I'm calling an imperial amber with similar grainbill only using 2 row, vienna in place of Munich, crystal was special B in similar proportion to your 120 and all C-40 subbed for your carared+40, then a few ounces chocolate instead of roasted barley. It was a nice red color.
Good call on the post 145F additions. Hopefully it will be balanced enough (i.e. not too sweet), but if not I may have to look into a post fermentation hop extract addition. I just bought Beersmith and didn't see a "whirlpool" hop addition option. Maybe I just overlooked it, but it'd be great if you can point me to it.
 

chickypad

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I'm at work so don't have access to BS right now but in the drop down for each hop addition where you select boil or dry hop there should be an option for steeping/whirlpool (also next to where you enter time it should say something like steep/boil). If you don't see that you likely need to install the latest update to 2.2 - it was just added last month.
:mug:
 
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The_Gerbil_Brewer

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Thanks Chickypad - I bought Beersmith over the weekend so have a lot to explore! I found the option but am left with a few questions. My 5 minute addition of Motueka (6.7%) calculates an IBU of 3.6%. The whirlpool addition give the same IBU as the 5 minute hops with just 11 minutes of steeping time. Since I'm delaying the chilling it seems I should be adding time to my boil hops to take into account the additional time at higher temperatures.

Think I should add time equal to 1/3 of the steeping time pre 150F to all the hop additions? If utilization is roughly 1/3 for whirlpool hops and utilization is pretty much zero after 150 then I'm thinking upping the "time" the boil hops are in to account for the whirlpool time. If I do this and use a whirlpool time of 25 minutes for the 2oz of whirlpool hops and add on an additional 8 minutes to each of the boil hops I get 43 IBUs.

Thoughts?

Red IPA Beersmith.jpg
 

chickypad

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That's an interesting question, does adding a whirlpool change the calculations for your other hop additions. It shouldn't matter 60 min + as they should be pretty maxed out already, but I see what you are saying about the other boil additions. I don't know that I've seen that mentioned in the talk about whirlpool calculations but it does seem like the boil+steeping time should be factored in.
 
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The_Gerbil_Brewer

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I ended up dry hopping for 8 days and just transferred over to the kegs. Finished at 1.019 for an apparent ABV of 6.75%. Initial taste has great hop flavor and a firm but smooth bitterness that balances nicely with the malt. Hop flavor, aroma, and bitterness definitely on target for an IPA IMHO. Will give a final tasting & critique with a picture once carbed. :mug:
 
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