You absolutely should. There's a whole world of stouts out there that have little comparison to Guinness.
Recommend a Factory Porter
- Thread starter Clint Yeastwood
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk:
During the third sip. Not the second, not the fourth. The third sip.
And the fifth.
OP
OP
"Sip"?
And there's the period of time when breweries made either/or, but not both. Then practically no breweries made porter, but they still had low gravity dark roasty ales.
But it is not that big companies ever cared about being correct.... it is more about what sells.
Indeed.
OP
OP
I used to love Guinness on beer gas. Then I tried Murphy's and liked it better. The only other non-imperial I've tried was a milk stout, and I couldn't believe people actually drank it.
The stout I just made is my all-time favorite low-gravity stout, says the guy who has tried three. I call it "low-gravity" because "dry" doesn't fit. I don't know what to call it. Someone here probably knows the name of a style that fits. It's like the North Coast people lost their minds and tried to make a thinner Old Rasputin to compete with Guinness. Crazy head, lots of caramel, coffee, and chocolate flavors. Slight sweetness.
Maybe the popularity of Guinness has given people limited horizons when it comes to stout. Or porter. Or prout. Whatever.
The stout I just made is my all-time favorite low-gravity stout, says the guy who has tried three. I call it "low-gravity" because "dry" doesn't fit. I don't know what to call it. Someone here probably knows the name of a style that fits. It's like the North Coast people lost their minds and tried to make a thinner Old Rasputin to compete with Guinness. Crazy head, lots of caramel, coffee, and chocolate flavors. Slight sweetness.
Maybe the popularity of Guinness has given people limited horizons when it comes to stout. Or porter. Or prout. Whatever.
I know, all mixed up. That is why I say there is neither stout nor porter, there is spourter.
.... honestly, it is both the same nowadays and can be used interchangably.
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
OP
OP
Storter.
We're all in agreement here. Dark, roasty beers can be very delicious.
You may be interested in this recipe from the same guy who wrote the American Brown featuring Crystal hops.
https://beerandbrewing.com/little-raspy-recipe/
And his methodology...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/beerandbrewing.com/amp/session-stouts-big-flavor-in-small-packages/
OP
OP
So I'm not the only one who likes crystal malt! Next time someone yammers at me about using a pound and a half, I'll post that link.
OP
OP
It's not even lunchtime, and I want stout.
I love Founder's Porter and London Pride Porter. I absolutely hate Samuel Smith Taddy Porter.
I really like Anchor Porter. Not too bitter, just a touch of sweet, great mouth feel. I recommend giving it a try if you can get it in your area. It's hit or miss here so I stock up when I find it.
dwightr8
Well-Known Member
Here's a good article you might want to read:
Deschutes Black Butte Porter
I haven't tried this recipe (yet) but I can vouch for the real thing!
OP
OP
The Whole Foods knockoff near me only had a couple of porters that didn't look gimmicky. Founder's and Samuel Smith. I picked them up. I also found a can labeled "Kolsch-style ale," so I grabbed that.
OP
OP
I tried Samuel Smith. I guess you could call it a stout, but it lacks the kind of bitterness you get with a stout that has a decent amount of roasted grain in it.
It smells like raisins, and it tastes a lot like a fruitcake. I think if you reduced this stuff with sugar, you could use it to flavor a fruitcake.
It wasn't bad, but something about the taste suggested cheapness. I read that sugar is one of the ingredients. Maybe too much sugar and not enough grain?
I wouldn't turn one down, but I wouldn't buy it again, either.
It smells like raisins, and it tastes a lot like a fruitcake. I think if you reduced this stuff with sugar, you could use it to flavor a fruitcake.
It wasn't bad, but something about the taste suggested cheapness. I read that sugar is one of the ingredients. Maybe too much sugar and not enough grain?
I wouldn't turn one down, but I wouldn't buy it again, either.
I also enjoy crystal malt, but usually try to keep it at 5-10% of the grist.
On porter, at least for brittish breweries, what we know as stout today (Fullers black cab, Shepherd Neames Double etc) can in a way be seen as a revival of the old school 1.055-ish Porter.
The word stout as pointed out originates from "stout porter", meaning a strong porter, during the second half of 19th century it came to describe a ~1.070+ beer with similair qualities to a porter, but called just stout.
The around 5% abv for many stouts likely come from forced gravity drops during the war, it used to be higher, with porters at about the same strenght as today, at least from the later half of the 1800's until it's decline with WW1.
On porter, at least for brittish breweries, what we know as stout today (Fullers black cab, Shepherd Neames Double etc) can in a way be seen as a revival of the old school 1.055-ish Porter.
The word stout as pointed out originates from "stout porter", meaning a strong porter, during the second half of 19th century it came to describe a ~1.070+ beer with similair qualities to a porter, but called just stout.
The around 5% abv for many stouts likely come from forced gravity drops during the war, it used to be higher, with porters at about the same strenght as today, at least from the later half of the 1800's until it's decline with WW1.
People rave about Taddy Porter but I agree, I find it slightly watery.
I did a few iterations on an English Porter recipe. My first "from scratch" one was a bit of a flop (not the right roast balance, way too much peanut character from Victory Malt). I then brewed a recipe very close to the "Fuller’s London Porter clone" in this article:
https://byo.com/article/brown-malt/
In the next iteration, I reduced the Brown Malt down to 1 lb and liked that version much better. I then realized the recipe I had "created" was almost identical to the recipe in "Brewing Classic Styles". I like Fuller’s London Porter, but I find I like a bit more roast character and a bit less dark fruit/raisin character. I have a version in the fermenter now that I plan to send to NHC. I tried to reduce the roast character on this batch just a little, hoping it would score better in the English Porter category.
I feel like Founders Porter is an excellent example of an American Porter. I also really like Deschutes Black Butte Porter. Great Lakes Edmund Fitzgerald Porter is listed in the guidelines as an example, but to me that one crosses that fuzzy line into stout area (but it is a very nice beer). I also plan to send an American Porter to NHC.
https://byo.com/article/brown-malt/
In the next iteration, I reduced the Brown Malt down to 1 lb and liked that version much better. I then realized the recipe I had "created" was almost identical to the recipe in "Brewing Classic Styles". I like Fuller’s London Porter, but I find I like a bit more roast character and a bit less dark fruit/raisin character. I have a version in the fermenter now that I plan to send to NHC. I tried to reduce the roast character on this batch just a little, hoping it would score better in the English Porter category.
I feel like Founders Porter is an excellent example of an American Porter. I also really like Deschutes Black Butte Porter. Great Lakes Edmund Fitzgerald Porter is listed in the guidelines as an example, but to me that one crosses that fuzzy line into stout area (but it is a very nice beer). I also plan to send an American Porter to NHC.
OP
OP
I think it's important to admit to ourselves that the people who created old commercial beers, even in Europe, didn't always do the best work possible.
JoeSpartaNJ
Well-Known Member
Was the Sam Smith dated? Could be old.
I do not think I've ever seen it under 4 months old in NJ in my life
I agree, there were, evident by old documents, lots of mediocre brewers out there.
Though keep in mind that for about the 3 last decades of the 1800's, sanitation and hygiene standards in a brewery were on par with todays, and the brewing process itself practically the same.
So apart from different public tastes back then affecting recipe creation, malt types used, ratios etc, pale ales and porter probably would not taste to far off for a modern drinker...
Though keep in mind that for about the 3 last decades of the 1800's, sanitation and hygiene standards in a brewery were on par with todays, and the brewing process itself practically the same.
So apart from different public tastes back then affecting recipe creation, malt types used, ratios etc, pale ales and porter probably would not taste to far off for a modern drinker...
BrewnWKopperKat
(Ο_Ο)
Trivia quesiton (inspired by the article) for those or those who follow people, not content providers: name two other home brewing related things the author has been involved with?
I don't want to delve into the true definitions if they even exist. I thought I might mention that as a homebrewer I do try to create a difference when I'm making recipes, just so I have something to shoot for.
My porters tend to be dry, I like to get coffee flavors (and even add beans at times), and I tend to do brown and pale chocolate malts at one end of the spectrum with black malts in them as well from the other end. My stouts tend to be heavier bodied, I shoot for chocolate flavors (and sometimes add nibs), and tend to use a lot of roasted barley and chocolate malt, staying more in the middle of the spectrum.
It helped me out anyhow, to have a goal, and try to brew different beers that I could have kegged at the same time and not feel like they were too similar to each other. I also make a brown ale and an Imperial Stout which of course I try to make easily distinguishable form the porter and stout.
Ron's Let's Brew series
The BJCP
ETA: He created the ubiquitous Landlord clone kit, Innkeeper.
Last edited:
Scrolls down to see the author's name and thinks, "it is good to see some women writing brewing articles." Searches Google and learns that Kristen England is a man. I cannot say I have ever heard of him before.
For those interested in historic British brewing and historic brewing in general, he is a bit of a legend.
OP
OP
I tried the Founder's porter I bought. I thought it was very nice. Like stout with less chocolate malt. I have no complaints about it, but I like more flavor.
I have found it very informative to evaluate a popular commercial beer and then look for information on the recipe. There are several sources for Founders Porter recipes. This thread has some good info: Any Founder's Porter clone recipes or info?
Founders Porter is probably "more like a stout that shifts the roasted malt bill toward chocolate malt and away from black malt or roasted barley." I would note that chocolate malt can vary from 350L to 500L (with Pale Chocolate Malt being maybe 200-250L), and Briess sells a 300L Roasted Barley. I tend to think that Porters will have more Chocolate Malt character with sweetness to balance, where Stouts will lean on more 500L malts (with varying levels of body and sweetness depending on the style).
Some American Porters can be quite hoppy as well.
OP
OP
It looks like I misunderstood chocolate malt and roasted barley. I always thought roasted barley was the darkest, but a few days back, I saw a site claiming the opposite. I am checking now, and it looks like the roasted barley I've been using runs 488-713L, but the chocolate malt runs 338-432. So then Founder's must cut back on roasted barley, not chocolate malt.
I thought Founder's was great, but stout is pretty nearly the same thing, and I like it much better, so I don't see any point in trying to make porter.
I thought Founder's was great, but stout is pretty nearly the same thing, and I like it much better, so I don't see any point in trying to make porter.
