American pre-Prohibition Porter
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Ha! ... I've grabbed some attention, but no answers, yet.
I'll try again. Here's something I was getting at: It's an American made beer, but a recreation of historical London Porters; "Obadiah Poundage Porter" by Goose Island. There's a You Tube video:
But the demonstrated recreation of "Brown Malt" is out of step with what was going on in London at that time. Doing anything on a commercial scale outside in Britain was ... well, we don't have the weather over here (farmers and fishermen must tough it out, but the rest rather not). Malting, even the kilning, had moved indoors a good while previous (in towns and cities at least). But was it still going on outdoor in the USA? And did it carry on into the early 20th C.? Presumably, if it had moved indoors, it had been done with lessons learnt by the Brits (who accidentally burnt down many of their malthouses).
The demonstrated outdoor malt roasting/drying would possibly have produced diastatic malt. Would that have been the case prior to 1920, or would the USA have moved to predominantly "Pale Malt" (where the Brown Malt need not have been diastatic any longer and might have been deeper roasted for flavour)?
Here's an example of an out-of-London Porter that might possibly be like US pre-Prohibition 20th C. Porter??? They were brewing this in Britian for over-seas Navy types when elsewhere Porter was going down the pan (UK drinkers moving to other ales and beers ... generally, "Mild Ales" and "X-Ales"):
Let's Brew - 1885 Mew Langton Gibraltar Porter - Shut Up About Barclay Perkins
The Brown Malt in this case could have been rotary kilned ("modern") going by the small percentage (<9%), but the amount of Black Malt wasn't small (9%)! Loads of American hops (coincidentally)!
[EDIT: But does the process used to male historical Brown Malt really matter? Indoors or outdoors? But well done Goose Island; for not being tempted to use "modern" kilned Brown Malt. The "modern" uniformly roasted brown malt will be radically different from the historical stuff, in many more ways than the historical stuff could be "diastatic".
Beware that Gibraltar Porter recipe too. I wouldn't normally question a Ron Pattinson interpreted recipe, but I've another interpretation of exactly that 1885 recipe using 2% Black Malt. That's radically different to 8.65%, more than use of volume measures explains (the usual reason for different interpretations). I'll set to work on that conundrum!]
I'll try again. Here's something I was getting at: It's an American made beer, but a recreation of historical London Porters; "Obadiah Poundage Porter" by Goose Island. There's a You Tube video:
But the demonstrated recreation of "Brown Malt" is out of step with what was going on in London at that time. Doing anything on a commercial scale outside in Britain was ... well, we don't have the weather over here (farmers and fishermen must tough it out, but the rest rather not). Malting, even the kilning, had moved indoors a good while previous (in towns and cities at least). But was it still going on outdoor in the USA? And did it carry on into the early 20th C.? Presumably, if it had moved indoors, it had been done with lessons learnt by the Brits (who accidentally burnt down many of their malthouses).
The demonstrated outdoor malt roasting/drying would possibly have produced diastatic malt. Would that have been the case prior to 1920, or would the USA have moved to predominantly "Pale Malt" (where the Brown Malt need not have been diastatic any longer and might have been deeper roasted for flavour)?
Here's an example of an out-of-London Porter that might possibly be like US pre-Prohibition 20th C. Porter??? They were brewing this in Britian for over-seas Navy types when elsewhere Porter was going down the pan (UK drinkers moving to other ales and beers ... generally, "Mild Ales" and "X-Ales"):
Let's Brew - 1885 Mew Langton Gibraltar Porter - Shut Up About Barclay Perkins
The Brown Malt in this case could have been rotary kilned ("modern") going by the small percentage (<9%), but the amount of Black Malt wasn't small (9%)! Loads of American hops (coincidentally)!
[EDIT: But does the process used to male historical Brown Malt really matter? Indoors or outdoors? But well done Goose Island; for not being tempted to use "modern" kilned Brown Malt. The "modern" uniformly roasted brown malt will be radically different from the historical stuff, in many more ways than the historical stuff could be "diastatic".
Beware that Gibraltar Porter recipe too. I wouldn't normally question a Ron Pattinson interpreted recipe, but I've another interpretation of exactly that 1885 recipe using 2% Black Malt. That's radically different to 8.65%, more than use of volume measures explains (the usual reason for different interpretations). I'll set to work on that conundrum!]
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That would be my approach if needed. But not everyone agrees with my fanatical "Brown Malt" emulations!
My "emulations" would allow for "smokiness". "Modern" brown malt isn't smoky. My "emulations" would also allow for "caramel" flavours (hints of). "Modern" brown malt isn't caramelly.
But ... I don't know if I need to go there yet. So, I best keep any controversy muted for now!
Extra: I can't put more in case I run foul of Copyright. But this was from Edd Mathers' defunct "Make Mine a Magee's" Web site. He has since started another site at https://beerhistorybloke.blogspot.com/ but I couldn't find "Gibraltar Porter" on it.
(No, there was no Weyermann in the original. But Edd would mix the base malts to get what he thought would be about right).
Here’s a 1900 American Porter recipe that my friend Craig copied for Ron:
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2012/11/lets-brew-wednesday-1900-amsdell-porter.html
As Ron notes: “Porter grists are a topic that have long fascinated me. This one, the stack of adjuncts excepted, holds few surprises. Basically just pale and black malt. Which is pretty typical of Porter grists from just about anywhere but London after 1850. London brewers, you'll remember, stuck with brown malt to the bitter end.”
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2012/11/lets-brew-wednesday-1900-amsdell-porter.html
As Ron notes: “Porter grists are a topic that have long fascinated me. This one, the stack of adjuncts excepted, holds few surprises. Basically just pale and black malt. Which is pretty typical of Porter grists from just about anywhere but London after 1850. London brewers, you'll remember, stuck with brown malt to the bitter end.”
Correct me if I'm wrong, but brown malt was a throwback from when malt kilning wasn't such an exacting science. So unless your recipe dates back to using it, there wasn't much need to include it.
My feeling says that @Witherby 's recipe is pretty well on point. Use corn, and use a good chunk of it.
My feeling says that @Witherby 's recipe is pretty well on point. Use corn, and use a good chunk of it.
Won't be me thinking you're wrong or correcting you! 'Tween you and @Witherby I'm much happier with my grip of American Porter. Thanks.
I think people have the wrong impression that brewers were living in the dark ages 150 years or more ago. That is simply not true. Malting in both the UK and US was plenty sophisticated. The outdoor attempt at making brown malt in that one-off production made by Goose Island was just that... a one-off. Don't watch that and believe 'that's the way it was done' back in the day.
Also take with a grain of salt the impressions of Brits on American brewing techniques and vice versa.
As for the Gibraltar Porter recipe Ron says it right in his notes... this was an export for Gibraltar and unusual in its grain bill so it is probably a bad example to point to. I prefer his 1880 Whitbread Porter which I use as a base for many of my own Porter recipes.
Also take with a grain of salt the impressions of Brits on American brewing techniques and vice versa.
As for the Gibraltar Porter recipe Ron says it right in his notes... this was an export for Gibraltar and unusual in its grain bill so it is probably a bad example to point to. I prefer his 1880 Whitbread Porter which I use as a base for many of my own Porter recipes.
I was intrigued by the primitive technique of creating brown malt used for that Goose Island stuff. I thought it might be indicative of what they were doing for pre-Prohibition Porter. But I was reminded (by @Witherby & @Agent) that hanging on to brown malt was very much a "British" thing, and pre-Prohibition Porter would have been using pale malt, black malt and sugar (and maize). And you've pointed out Goose Island were only using that brown malt technique as a one-off.
I made something like that (pale malt, black malt and sugar) a few years ago but without the maize: 1901 Boddington's Stout - Shut Up About Barclay Perkins. Probably the worst beer I've tasted for a long time. Serves me right for pulling out a UK Boddington's recipe. But it has put me off any idea of replicating a Pre-prohibition Porter!
I'll pick up on that "Gibraltar Porter" again (as a Porter in its own right). I can't agree it's an "unusual" grain bill; all malt, the three typical malts for "London" Porter (not just London, most of England and Scotland) and hanging on to "vatting" although the giant vats will possibly be gone by then ... just aged in barrels perhaps before the short hop to Gibraltar. The small quantity of brown malt suggests they may have been using brown malt created in rotating cylinder (indirect heated) kilns (much like "modern" brown malt), not direct heated "traditional" brown malt (such as French & Jupp were supplying to most of London). The Whitbread 1880 recipe is also relatively low in brown malt ... also "modern" brown malt too perhaps? But less likely.
Hanging on to brow malt was more of a London thing than it was a general British thing. Almost every brewery in the nation outside of London had dropped it long before the big London brewers did.
What makes that Gibraltar Porter unusual is that it has no sugar.
You've not heard of William Black, Devahna Brewery in Aberdeen, famous for stout in 19th C. Or Sam Smith's in Yorkshire brewing Stout (and their Porter) now containing Brown Malt ... about the only authentic British stout left. I've linked a recipe around this forum of a late 19th C. stout from Mew Langton on the I.O.W. (with brown malt). You yourself have said "Almost every ..." and "more a London thing"; that's not the same as it's extinct outside London.
I purposely didn't repeat the myth that true British Stout (with Brown Malt) finished outside London. There are three examples, people would quickly quote more, just like I'm doing for you!
Oh aye! They were putting sugar in just about every beer by then. And the lack of "true" vatting (RP does mention "vatting" but I'm presuming it wasn't on the scale of mid-century operations). Same OG as the Whitbread one you've pulled out. I've just got that small concern about the amount of black malt.
But I know now I'm not putting it up as a "pre-Prohibition" candidate.
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