Recirc, Wilser Bag, Crush Size

[odie]

Couple things that come to mind when looking at your setups.

Cato, you're only recirculating the bottom portion of your mash. I'd really worry that if your temp probe is near the bottom that you dont have consistant temps throughout the whole mash. Heat rises, so maybe I'm worrying about nothing, but it does have me thinking. It is good that you're able to leave the lid on as that will retain heat.

Horsepuncher, leaving the lid off due to your mounting apparatus contributes to a ton of heat loss. I'd also worry about channeling with using a
Loc-line. All the wort flow is going back into that one spot. I'd try to make sure that your wort flow is just a bare trickle and there's a good inch or two of water above your grain bed.

I agree. The return hose needs to go to the top of the mash. That’s the only way you are truly recirculating.

 

[odie]

A 10 gallon kettle is bare minimum. And that’s only for standard beers

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I recirculate wide open for the entire mash. It keeps mash temperature swings to a minimum, but uses energy the whole time.

 

[Jtvann]

I recirculate wide open for the entire mash. It keeps mash temperature swings to a minimum, but uses energy the whole time.

View attachment 659683

I think I just heard a LODO brewer scream from across the country seeing that sprayer.

 

[Cato1507]

I agree. The return hose needs to go to the top of the mash. That’s the only way you are truly recirculating.

True, I'm probably technically whirlpooling, but at 7gpm it keeps my temps right for me and my grain bed nice and fluid with no stuck sparge issues and little stratification. For me and my BIAB, I like it.
Since I've never recirculated from the top I'm not in the position to say yea or nay to that method.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I think I just heard a LODO brewer scream from across the country seeing that sprayer.

I'm sure you did. I've thought about purging the mash with Co2 and ended up doing closed transfers and replacing beer line with EVABarrier LODO lines for now.

 

[Wayne1]

There is no standard setting for mill gap. Every grain is different. Here is an excellent article from MoreBeer on mill gap settings for different grains: https://www.morebeer.com/articles/crushin_it

 

[MX1]

I have a High Gravity BIAB setup 15 gallon kettle with the typical craw-fish boil strainer basket and a BIAB bag.
I use a Chugger pump for all my water movement. I have no issues with re-circulation at all.

Let me say this: Don't let anyone tell you how to brew, if you want to re-circulate then do it! Change one thing at a time....loosen up your crush a mil or 2, see if that helps, if it does, make sure to check your efficiency.....rinse and repeat as needed.
Also, play with water-flow speed, i start slow, let the grain bed set, then ramp it up....IMHO it does not have to be full blast, but your system may react different....and I use a sprayer just like @ScrewyBrewer and don't give a whiff what the LODO cult says......

 

[odie]

MX1 sounds like yours is the same as mine. 15 gal kettle, steamer basket and a Wilser bag. But I'm still having problems with my recirc. specifically my really, really tiny pump will flow more than can naturally flow thru the grain bed by gravity so a huge air space develops below the basket and pretty soon the pump is pulling air thru bottom spigot and the pump starts to stall out. I've tried a false bottom to present more exposed surface area on the bottom of the bag but grain bed flow still can't keep up with the pump. Basically right now I'm having to cycle the pump on/off every 5-10 minutes.

 

[odie]

Or is my crush too tight? Is that even possible with BIAB? What I mean is maybe crush more "normal" and just mash longer to achieve BIAB efficiency?

 

[MX1]

Or is my crush too tight? Is that even possible with BIAB? What I mean is maybe crush more "normal" and just mash longer to achieve BIAB efficiency?

how are you returning the water back to the top of the grain?
and if were me, i would back the crush off a bit, also how are you milling? If you are blasting through it at top speed, you might be shredding the husk a bit too much

 

[odie]

it just returns to the top of the kettle. just pours into the top of the wort and flows back down thru the grain bed. from looking at the top of the mash it seems more of a soup than oatmeal. with full volume mashing I think there is enough wort floating on top of the grain bed to prevent any "tunneling".

I try to run the mill at the slowest speed without bogging down the power drill.

 

[MX1]

i have cheap variable speed drill from Harbor Freight, it is a low speed/high torque drill that is corded, it has the button that can lock the trigger, and then a dial on the trigger that will allow me to up the speed in small steps until it is grinding at the slowest speed possible.

as the weight of the grain lessens, it will speed up some, but it is still pretty slow.

T

 

[MX1]

https://www.amazon.com/Genesis-GSHD...h+variable+speed+drill&qid=1578370108&sr=8-11

This one is just about the same drill

 

[odie]

I recirculate using a Wilser bag and a brew bag in my Anvil Foundry. There are a few things to be careful of if you do a recirculation for any mash. The first is to allow the grain bed to settle a bit before starting any recirculation and the second is to start with a very low flow level and slowly increase it to a modest flow. My recirculation stream is a bit less than the thickness of a pencil for reference.

You want to avoid a high downward pull to prevent compacting the mash and a heavy flow from above which can cause channeling through the grain bed. You want to keep the grain bid "floating" as much as possible to allow for good liquid exchange around the grain particles.

I tried leaving the pump off while I mashed in. Let the grain bed settle a few minutes. Now it’s flowing much better. Granted it’s a small grainbill, 7.5#

 

[wilserbrewer]

I tried leaving the pump off while I mashed in. Let the grain bed settle a few minutes. Now it’s flowing much better. Granted it’s a small grainbill, 7.5#

My guess would be that leaving the pump off during mash in and then waiting several minutes allows for substantial conversion, recirculating sugar solution rather than sticky starches is much easier.

Just a guess, not a recirc guy just intrigued how many love to do it

 

[odie]

I started doing it because how my kettle is set up with an internal element, I need a false bottom or basket and thus have somewhere between 1-2 gallons of dead wort not in the mash if I don’t recirc

 

[tofuguy]

Just a guess, not a recirc guy just intrigued how many love to do it

I personally recirculate so I can do step mashes. I am seeing differences in the body and attenuation of the beer and subtle efficiency gains. But like many I built a system with it but rarely used it for the first couple years where I only did single infusion mashes. It did help maintain my temperature when I had poor crush from a LHBS. Once I got my own mill, I was seeing fill conversation much faster.

 

[fun4stuff]

My guess would be that leaving the pump off during mash in and then waiting several minutes allows for substantial conversion, recirculating sugar solution rather than sticky starches is much easier.

Just a guess, not a recirc guy just intrigued how many love to do it

i too am wondering why so many recirculate when it does nothing to change the beer. It just an extra step for mistakes to happen and adds something else clean.

 

[Jtvann]

i too am wondering why so many recirculate when it does nothing to change the beer. It just an extra step for mistakes to happen and adds something else clean.

1- Its fun. That really needs to be the only explanation. It's a hobby done for fun, and people get enjoyment from it.

2- Step mashing. Might not be required, might not improve a dang thing. Might be a false sense of improvement over beer but ... see #1.

3- Better temp control. I dont want to throw a Mt. Everest insulated sleeping bag around my equipment. I dont want to use mylar or reflectix wrap.

4- Dead space in the mash tun below false bottom- I like keeping the bag off the heating element and off the temp probe. That leaves unexposed wort. This really goes back to #1 though, and not wanting to do #3

Who's got some more, I'm tired of typing

 

[Cato1507]

i too am wondering why so many recirculate when it does nothing to change the beer. It just an extra step for mistakes to happen and adds something else clean.

I'm disagreeing with that statement because I think maintaining an even accurate temperature during the mash does affect your beer. There are so many ways to go about this.

I BIAB and to avoid temperature stratification I run my whirlpool during full volume mash and stir once or twice during mash. Others may recirculate, and some wrap their kettles in sleeping bags.

It is fun to brew and each to his own to accommodate their particular set up and preferences. Lol, I'm not into extra cleaning but since I'm going to have those hoses and pump to whirlpool hops and trub, I might as well use it during the mash to lessen temp differentials.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I used to recirculate but I had a very close call and have been too afraid to try it again ever since that day.

 

[bgmac]

How about a partial recirc. I just recirc 4 or 5 times for minute or 2 just to keep the temps even. I use brew in a bag/in a basket. My basket is a 10 gallon kettle with a bunch of holes drilled in the bottom that sits inside a 20 gallon kettle. The 10 gallon basket/kettle sits just inside a 20 gallon boil coil and has 1 inch bolts on the bottom to keep it raised a little bit to allow the wort to flow out the bottom. I use one of those small 2 gpm hot water circ pumps so flow is fairly low. I leave it running during the whole mash and just put the hose outside of the 10 gallon basket/kettle and in the 20 gallon kettle to help circulate the wort around the boil coil and outside of the 10 gallon basket/kettle keeping temps nice and even.

When I do my short recircs, it does get stuck most of the time and the level in the 10 gallon kettle raises higher then the outside level in the 20 gallon kettle. i just give a little slow tug on the walls of the open bag and the wort level usually evens back out in a few minutes.

I use a fine crush around the thickness of a credit card on the mill.

The efficiency has been great around 85% ever time. Very happy with the process and results so sticking with it.

I attribute good efficiency to super fine crush, proper sparge with the basket/kettle hanging in the air after mash is complete, and letting it drip dry for a long time, like 20 minutes while heating the 20 gallon kettle to boil. Lots of sugars come out with those final drippings.

 

[fun4stuff]

I'm disagreeing with that statement because I think maintaining an even accurate temperature during the mash does affect your beer. There are so many ways to go about this.

I BIAB and to avoid temperature stratification I run my whirlpool during full volume mash and stir once or twice during mash. Others may recirculate, and some wrap their kettles in sleeping bags.

It is fun to brew and each to his own to accommodate their particular set up and preferences. Lol, I'm not into extra cleaning but since I'm going to have those hoses and pump to whirlpool hops and trub, I might as well use it during the mash to lessen temp differentials.

Last i checked, conversion completed for me after around 15 mins. In that time, my temp dropped by 0. If you’re doing a full volume and stir for a couple minutes, you aren’t going to have any stratification... and if you insulate you’re kettle, you aren’t going to lose more than a couple degrees over an hour.