Recipe Identification -- What would you call this?

[betarhoalphadelta]

Just got my score sheets back on this, and the comments make me think I mistakenly classified it as one style rather than another.

If you take a look at this recipe, what would you characterize it as given BJCP 2015 guidelines?

(11 gal batch):
Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
13 lbs Pale Ale Malt, Northwestern (Grea Grain 1 67.5 %
3 lbs Munich 10L (Briess) (10.0 SRM) Grain 2 15.6 %
2 lbs Caramel Malt - 40L (Briess) (40.0 Grain 3 10.4 %
1 lbs Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.2 %
4.0 oz Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.3 %
1.50 oz Centennial [9.10 %] - Boil 60.0 m Hop 6 25.4 IBUs
2.50 oz Centennial [9.10 %] - Steep/Whirl Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
3.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis # Yeast 8 -

Estimated OG: 1.046 SG
Estimated Color: 14.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 25.4 IBUs

 

[ebbelwoi]

Did the yeast line get cut off at the end? Is it US-05?

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Did the yeast line get cut off at the end? Is it US-05?

Yes, sorry... US-05.

 

[Amadeo38]

Depends what it tastes like, in the end. You rarely want to enter a beer strictly based on what you intended when designing it, but rather based on where it fits based on taste.

That said, assuming it fully attenuated and there are no off-flavors, it looks like a light-ish color amber ale? Alternatively, if the bitterness is perceived strongly and has a definite hop aroma from the whirlpool addition, it could be perceived as a pale ale?

 

[bob1852]

American Amber?

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Depends what it tastes like, in the end. You rarely want to enter a beer strictly based on what you intended when designing it, but rather based on where it fits based on taste.

That said, assuming it fully attenuated and there are no off-flavors, it looks like a light-ish color amber ale? Alternatively, if the bitterness is perceived strongly and has a definite hop aroma from the whirlpool addition, it could be perceived as a pale ale?

My beers generally taste like what the recipe looks like lol... I would say it's true in this case.

I entered it as an amber BTW. Judges thought it was more of a brown. When I drink it off the keg, I do pick up a little more roast from the carafa and it's more deeply malty than "sweet", as I was trying to restrain the crystal [hence the 3 lb Munich in there].

I'm trying to figure out whether something might have gone wrong with the bottle, or whether I just completely whiffed and put it in the wrong category. Of the 4 beers I entered, I had scores of 40, 38, 36, with two of them taking 1st place in their category, and this beer was given a 23. So it's certainly not what I'd think based on my own palate drinking it, but if it's completely not to style I could see it getting panned by the judges.

 

[Amadeo38]

I’d be more inclined to think either it was a bottle mixup or your bottle has an issue. Did any judge note the color of the cap and type of bottle used that could help confirm that it was indeed one of yours?

A 23 means there were several issues other than being slightly out of range for the style in flavor.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Some of us are super taters and more easily pick up on use of roasted malt. I don't like any roast taste in an amber or red.

@Amadeo38 might on to something though. Besides a possible mixup, bottles are more prone to oxidation and contamination.

 

[Bobcatbrewing42]

More hops would probably put it into American Pale Ale

 

[Upthewazzu]

Some of us are super taters and more easily pick up on use of roasted malt. I don't like any roast taste in an amber or red.

@Amadeo38 might on to something though. Besides a possible mixup, bottles are more prone to oxidation and contamination.

Yeah, I'm insanely sensitive to roasted malts and would have picked up on that 4oz of carafa III right away.

 

[Soulshine2]

Just got my score sheets back on this, and the comments make me think I mistakenly classified it as one style rather than another.

If you take a look at this recipe, what would you characterize it as given BJCP 2015 guidelines?

(11 gal batch):
Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
13 lbs Pale Ale Malt, Northwestern (Grea Grain 1 67.5 %
3 lbs Munich 10L (Briess) (10.0 SRM) Grain 2 15.6 %
2 lbs Caramel Malt - 40L (Briess) (40.0 Grain 3 10.4 %
1 lbs Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.2 %
4.0 oz Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.3 %
1.50 oz Centennial [9.10 %] - Boil 60.0 m Hop 6 25.4 IBUs
2.50 oz Centennial [9.10 %] - Steep/Whirl Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
3.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis # Yeast 8 -

Estimated OG: 1.046 SG
Estimated Color: 14.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 25.4 IBUs

I plugged it into my favorite recipe builder and it came up as an American Amber.
Could it possibly have been identified as a Northern German Altbier or Northern English Brown ?. Without actually asking the judge what his score was based on ,one can only guess.
I would doubt your score was because of a missing the style.

 

[Soulshine2]

My beers generally taste like what the recipe looks like lol... I would say it's true in this case.

I entered it as an amber BTW. Judges thought it was more of a brown. When I drink it off the keg, I do pick up a little more roast from the carafa and it's more deeply malty than "sweet", as I was trying to restrain the crystal [hence the 3 lb Munich in there].

I'm trying to figure out whether something might have gone wrong with the bottle, or whether I just completely whiffed and put it in the wrong category. Of the 4 beers I entered, I had scores of 40, 38, 36, with two of them taking 1st place in their category, and this beer was given a 23. So it's certainly not what I'd think based on my own palate drinking it, but if it's completely not to style I could see it getting panned by the judges.

This is why I will never enter anything I made myself into a scored competition(did it with taxidermy, it ruined my drive of creativeness) . My tastes and expectations are just that and I'm not about to be disappointed by someone elses taste or expectations or even something as simple as being mislabeled. I make beer for me and my wife and friends to enjoy. My only score is that I made something not only drinkable but enjoyable and when she takes that first sip, goes for the second and says "this is some kick ass beer" .
I'm sure your beer was nothing less than perfect for you. Some people ,whatever they call themselves be it a judge ,tasting panel or connoisseur, their taste is not yours. Each person tastes differently ,maybe its their bodys pH ,maybe they just ate something beforehand that changed or masked a flavor . Maybe they have a cold or sinus issue. Things as simple as those can alter someones perception of your beer.
I like to smoke fine cigars , I've read reviews on some 92+ scoring stogies ($$$).So, I try them, and I have yet to like one or taste the same notes they do.
Don't let this discourage you. Congratulations on your other beer/scores .
Keep on brewing.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Thanks to all. Looking at the style guidelines, I can definitely see where it was a little too "out of style". I tend to be sensitive to crystal malt, so I backed it likely way down from what the judges expected while adding the munich for maltiness and the carafa to get the color back up where it should have been... I suspect the judges picked up on the carafa too much and the restrained sweetness.

I'm suspicious that the bottle was a problem too. Some of the notes were "flat, low carbonation" which wasn't true of the beer. I use a counterpressure filler so it's not like the CO2 was lost during bottling either. I wonder if the bottle wasn't properly capped and I just missed it, and it caused some issues...

Either way I like the beer and I've heard GREAT feedback from people at the Southern California Homebrew Fest a few weeks ago as well as from non-brewers. So I'll chalk this one up to a bottle issue and possible mis-classification.

This is why I will never enter anything I made myself into a scored competition(did it with taxidermy, it ruined my drive of creativeness) . My tastes and expectations are just that and I'm not about to be disappointed by someone elses taste or expectations or even something as simple as being mislabeled. I make beer for me and my wife and friends to enjoy. My only score is that I made something not only drinkable but enjoyable and when she takes that first sip, goes for the second and says "this is some kick ass beer" .
I'm sure your beer was nothing less than perfect for you. Some people ,whatever they call themselves be it a judge ,tasting panel or connoisseur, their taste is not yours. Each person tastes differently ,maybe its their bodys pH ,maybe they just ate something beforehand that changed or masked a flavor . Maybe they have a cold or sinus issue. Things as simple as those can alter someones perception of your beer.
I like to smoke fine cigars , I've read reviews on some 92+ scoring stogies ($$$).So, I try them, and I have yet to like one or taste the same notes they do.
Don't let this discourage you. Congratulations on your other beer/scores .
Keep on brewing.

Agreed. One reason I often don't enter competitions is that if I want "classic styles" I can buy them at the store. Many of my recipes are a tweak off a classic style. I was shocked that my hoppy blonde won its category with a score of 40... Matching the 40 IBUs in that beer (way too high stylistically for a blonde). And the pale ale that scored 38 has 25% rye malt, which can be off-putting to some judges who aren't expecting that.

I've competed enough to know that a lot of results can be very questionable... But I didn't see anything about that beer that would put it into 23 territory, so I wanted to get some feedback here.