Really want to do a brett beer

[BierGut]

Today I purchased a copy of American Sour Beers by Michael Tonsmeire. I'm hoping that there's enough info in there to get me started as I'm dying to brew a beer (saison or a pale ale), put it into an oak barrel and inoculate it with brett. The brett would then live in that barrel and I could just age subsequent batches in there that I want to sour. This would be done after a primary fermentation with sac yeast. Does this sound about right or am I way off? Anyone have experience with using oak barrels for sours?

 

[stpug]

Brett is not a great "sourer" on it's own. I find it to be more of a characteristic(s) in the beer if used secondarily, and just barely there if used primarily. Definitely an organism to have included in sour beers and will thrive in an oak barrel, and the longer the beer has with it the more characteristic it becomes. But I'm just a novice at the sour beer brewing thing

 

[Biobrewer]

I'm hoping that there's enough info in there to get me started

You won't be disappointed. I'm making my way through it slowly but surely, and from what I have read already, there's enough information in there to become some what of an expert on the topic. Mike really put together quite a book. I think my favorite aspect of the book so far is that he put a strong focus on referencing his material throughout the book (each chapter has its own reference section), so you can go to the source for even more info.

 

[BierGut]

You won't be disappointed. I'm making my way through it slowly but surely, and from what I have read already, there's enough information in there to become some what of an expert on the topic. Mike really put together quite a book. I think my favorite aspect of the book so far is that he put a strong focus on referencing his material throughout the book (each chapter has its own reference section), so you can go to the source for even more info.[/QUOTE

Just curious if you've brewed anything yet using the knowledge gained from reading his book?

 

[BGBC]

Today I purchased a copy of American Sour Beers by Michael Tonsmeire. I'm hoping that there's enough info in there to get me started as I'm dying to brew a beer (saison or a pale ale), put it into an oak barrel and inoculate it with brett. The brett would then live in that barrel and I could just age subsequent batches in there that I want to sour. This would be done after a primary fermentation with sac yeast. Does this sound about right or am I way off? Anyone have experience with using oak barrels for sours?

I'm not using an oak barrel, but I'm doing something similar with a brett saison in a 3 gal BB (for now). I've taken one pull from the carboy so far and refilled it about 2 months ago. I'm planning to brew 3 gallons of saison soon and ferment it out with sacch (using WLP565). I'll step up the solera to a 5 gal carboy while pulling out a gallon from the BB to bottle.

I've been changing the recipe slightly with each refill and adding new dregs/brett strains as well. Not sure where I'll go with it in the long run, but might take it darker or just keep adding more bugs and go sour with it eventually.

Also, I agree with everyone that ASB is a great book with tons of information. More than enough to get you started brewing with brett.

 

[BierGut]

I'm not using an oak barrel, but I'm doing something similar with a brett saison in a 3 gal BB (for now). I've taken one pull from the carboy so far and refilled it about 2 months ago. I'm planning to brew 3 gallons of saison soon and ferment it out with sacch (using WLP565). I'll step up the solera to a 5 gal carboy while pulling out a gallon from the BB to bottle.

I've been changing the recipe slightly with each refill and adding new dregs/brett strains as well. Not sure where I'll go with it in the long run, but might take it darker or just keep adding more bugs and go sour with it eventually.

Also, I agree with everyone that ASB is a great book with tons of information. More than enough to get you started brewing with brett.

My copy of ASB will be delivered today so I'm excited and it should make for an interesting (unproductive) work week, next week. I'm also pretty excited that in addition to pre-ordering some rhizomes yesterday I put in an order for WLP565, 566, 644 and 653. I intend on brewing a 6g batch of a Saison (exact recipe still undecided) and splitting into 3, 1g fermentors. One fermented 100% with Saison II, another 100% fermented with Brett Brux Trois, the third to be fermented 75% with Saison I and finished with Brett Lambicus. The remaining 3g will be a mixture of all 4 yeast strains. I'll bottle up the 1g batches but the 3g will be what goes into an oak barrel eventually...maybe...?

Anyone have an all grain recipe to recommend? I currently have 10lb of pilsner malt and 2lb of wheat malt that I was thinking of building the recipe around. I also have some acidulated malt too but IDK if I want to use that?

 

[BGBC]

My basic saison recipe has been 80% pilsner/20% other grains (Target OG 1.055), and the other grains are what I've been playing with. The first batch was 10/10 wheat/rye, next was 10/10 wheat/oats, and I'm using spelt and rye combo next. The first pull with wheat & rye is great though and I'd recommend that (80 pils/10 rye/10 wheat).

Hop to ~30 IBU w/ one addition at 60 and one in the last few minutes of the boil, mostly using noble hops.

 

[Oldsock]

I usually suggest people skip the barrel when they start out doing sours. I just find that it adds a layer of complexity without a huge benefit to the results. How often to top-off? High surface-to-volume ratio, for small "homebrew" barrels. Timing batches to avoid leaving it empty. etc. Barrels have resulted in some of my favorite batches, but also some of my worst homebrewed sours.

Enjoy the book!

 

[madscientist451]

I ordered the American Sour Beer book, but haven't read it yet.
I've made saisons but not sour beer, using WL saison blends which include regular yeast, brett and bacteria, so I'm just getting into it myself. My saisons weren't really sour at all, but I didn't really let them age more than 6 months before they were all consumed.
From the information I've gathered, there is a difference between Brett character and beer sourness. You need the bacteria lactobacillus or pediococcus to get the sour in sour beer. Pedio should be used with Brett because the pedio with put off some diacetyl and other compounds the brett will take care of. Lacto has a "softer" sourness and can be added to a beer that has already been fermented.
One rule of thumb I've heard is you should make a successful gallon of sour beer before you try 5 gallons, and 5 gallons before your try 10 and so on, don't just jump in and try a 59 gallon wooden barrel.
At the same time you'll be building up your "house culture" of lacto/pedio and brett.
I'm starting my sour "program" with a flanders red Rodenbach clone that will take at least 18 months and two different brews that will be blended. I'm also starting a 100% brett fermentation beer and another one that uses a primary fermented with lager yeast and then a lacto addition. I'm waiting to get the book though before I launch any of this.
Here's a great podcast about sour beer:

http://podbay.fm/show/920652546

 

[BierGut]

Thank you two for your input. I'll be skipping the barrel for now just because I don't have one yet and who knows when I will? I also love the spiciness of rye malt so I like the idea of doing the 80/10/10 grist.

 

[stpug]

I usually suggest people skip the barrel when they start out doing sours. I just find that it adds a layer of complexity without a huge benefit to the results. How often to top-off? High surface-to-volume ratio, for small "homebrew" barrels. Timing batches to avoid leaving it empty. etc. Barrels have resulted in some of my favorite batches, but also some of my worst homebrewed sours.

Enjoy the book!

Always nice when the author offers up their advice!

 

[BierGut]

@ Madscientist451 - My wife would **** herself if I came home with a 59 gallon barrel to age beer in but I chuckle at the thought of doing it

 

[BierGut]

Always nice when the author offers up their advice!

I know, right? I feel "starstruck"

 

[madscientist451]

@ Madscientist451 - My wife would **** herself if I came home with a 59 gallon barrel to age beer in but I chuckle at the thought of doing it

Lol, lets see, is she going fo s**t herself or f**k herself? Hmm....
maybe getting a barrel right away would leave you more time for brewing....:cross:

 

[BierGut]

Lol, lets see, is she going fo s**t herself or f**k herself? Hmm....
maybe getting a barrel right away would leave you more time for brewing....:cross:

Ha! I thought somebody might have taken that the wrong way. S**ting was what I was going for there. We just got marreid in September so she still likes me to be there for the f**king. ok

Back to our regularly scheduled brew talk

 

[mnick12]

I just finished tasting a gravity sample from my most recent brett beer. It was 78% 2-row, 19.5% golden naked oats, and 2.4% acid malt. I pitched a 1.2L starter of brettanomyces Custersianus grown from a single colonie, and the decanted bacteria from a 1l starter of lactobacillus acidophilus.

OG was 1.052 and after 3 days of fermenting at rt (~72) the sg is 1.010 and the pH is 3.8, 80% attenuation in 3 days. Also there were no hops in the boil, but 2oz of motueka at flameout.

There is still a lot of yeast in suspension, but the gravity sample tasted eerily similar to hoegaarden.

Use brett it is really a cool yeast!