Re-using yeast?

[Wingnutt73]

Okay so I have a 5gal batch brewing right now from last weekend. I am planning on starting another this weekend and moving the first to a secondary. I want to re-use the yeast from the first batch and was wondering if I need to wash it or can I just put the new batch on the yeast cake and let it go back to work, since I'm going right from one to another? I

 

[COLObrewer]

It depends on the brews and the yeast used, among other things. Usually you can go from a lighter beer to a bigger beer by pitching on the cake but "adjuncts" (and other stuff) have effects from the first to second beer.

 

[Wingnutt73]

So it is basically the same Brew I am making for the second batch the only difference will be that the LME is american where as the first batch had the English version they are both Pale LE. The yeast is Whitbread Ale #1099. So by adding a new batch to the yeast cake will get it activated again?

 

[Evan_L]

You are better off using a sanitized scoop and pulling a cup or two of slurry out (heck at that point may as well wash it) and pitch that. Racking onto a previously used cake is way over-pitching.

 

[solbes]

You may get less "character" by over pitching onto an entire yeast cake. Something like an RIS or Barleywine, its not overpitching to rack on top of whole yeast cake.

I would get a clean spaghetti sauce jar or something similar. Fill it halfway with water, boil in microwave and put in fridge for a half a day. When brew day happens, use a sanitized measuring cup and fill the jar the rest of the way. Before pitching swirl it all around and let sit for 15 minutes. Then pour the first half or so into the wort until the clumpy trub starts to come out, discard the rest of what is in the jar. Done.

When I wash, I just repeat the same procedure into a 2nd jar and place back in the fridge. There it sits until most of the suspended yeast flocs out. I decant off the clear liquid and pitch the washed yeast slurry.

 

[Wingnutt73]

Okay. Thats what I was wondering so I should wash it and re-pitch then. That will give better results?

 

[jflongo]

Okay. Thats what I was wondering so I should wash it and re-pitch then. That will give better results?

I have heard of tons of people pitching right on to the cake, up to you if you want to give it a shot.

The great thing about washing, is you can get a good amount of yeast for future batches. You can easily get 3 or 4 pint jars with a decent amount of yeast in each.

 

[tphjr]

I re-pitch all the time. The trick is to taste the beer the yeast is coming from and throw it away if you have any hint of off-taste and to have a backup plan. And it does not take much - about a shot glass full of repitched yeast - to have my bext batch happily bubbling away by the end of the day.

I've also thrown some in a stir plate just to make sure I have happy, growing yeast ready for my next batch. The first time I did this I screwed up, I put the yeast in the stir plate 2 days ahead and it was already slowing down fast by the time I was ready to pitch. So now I put the yeast in my stir plate 1 day ahead.

I know I don't need a stir plate to re-pitch but I already own a SP-3000 stir plate I bought from www.towercooler.com and it's nice to wake the yeast back up & smell the results before re-pitching "in case" there's a problem I didn't taste earlier.

 

[BaldApe]

I just saw this article a few days ago.
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/12/yeast-washing-exposed.html

I have saved yeast in the past by simply swirling the yeast cake with that last bit of beer in the fermenter, then pouring it into a Grolsch bottle. After a few re-uses I get rid of it, or if I have any question about contamination.

 

[cageybee]

yeast is so inexpensive, I don't understand the rationale for trying to reuse it. is it a "because I can"/minimalist kind of thing?

thx

 

[BaldApe]

Dry yeast is inexpensive, but liquid yeast is not. Also, if you have cultured yeast saved from some other source, it may not be easily replaceable.

 

[jflongo]

Dry yeast is inexpensive, but liquid yeast is not. Also, if you have cultured yeast saved from some other source, it may not be easily replaceable.

Yes I agree, that's why I harvest my liquid yeast. If you think about a 5 - 6 gallon batch, and if everything costs you $20 - $24. Liquid Yeast can eat up 1/4 - 1/3 of that price pretty easy. For even cheaper batches, the percentage is higher if you buy liquid yeast.

My personal way is, harvest it, use it for at least 3 - 4 more batches. So that way if you paid $6 - $7. It will average out to around $2 / batch or less.

I have seen people also mention, buying a smack pack or tube, making a large starter for it, putting that on a stir plate, then splitting that up into multiple pint jars. I may have to try that at some point.

 

[solbes]

Okay. Thats what I was wondering so I should wash it and re-pitch then. That will give better results?

Pitching rate of yeast is probably second (after temp control) to making great beer IMO. Yes you can make good beer by under or over pitching yeast. But if you pay attention to getting the proper yeast counts into the wort, you can reduce lag times, dial up or down your esters, and minimize by products.

Underpitching is almost always the issue in home brewing. It's hard to over pitch, though a low/mid gravity beer onto an entire yeast cake would likely be over pitching. You will hear mixed opinions on what this will do to your beer (some will say nothing). If you are looking for a certain amount of esters or "character" from your beer, it may be missing as the yeast will not go through its normal reproductive phase. There are more than enough yeast cells to do the job within the cake.

 

[Wingnutt73]

yeast is so inexpensive, I don't understand the rationale for trying to reuse it. is it a "because I can"/minimalist kind of thing?

thx

So yes it may be inexpensive or it may not be. The reason I am wanting to reuse it is because my "LHBS" is not so local as in I have to drive 1 1/2 hours one way to get to it. I would much rather just buy the Grain,LME/DME, and Hops, (which I will not have to purchase soon since I will be growing those as well).
And also for me its the whole do it yourself thing. I'm already making my own beer why not try and be more "homegrown"? If I can supply most of my own Ingredients and save more money why wouldn't you do so? I understand the "It's much easier to buy them" but if you can do it yourelf I don't see a reason to pay for convenience.

Either Way this yeast is good yeast and as stated in one of the posts If I can pay $2 a batch instead of $6-$7 thats a much better price.

 

[cageybee]

I hear ya wingnut. if access is a problem, you gotta do what you gotta do. the do it yourself thing is an interesting thought. I guess it's more a question of craftsmanship and ownership of the resuts/product. you are farther along than I am...what I need I think is to taste the difference between what I make and what someone who is really good at it makes (for the "same" beer). if I can taste/appreciate the difference, I would be more energized to put more effort into it and have more ownership of the outcome.

 

[ncbrewer]

This BYO article has some cautions about the risks involved:
http://byo.com/stories/article/indices/19-brewing-tips/1353-reusing-yeast-and-sherry-notes-mr-wizard

 

[tphjr]

Dry packets are inexpensive but brewing with active live yeast has done a lot for my brewing & I only use dry packs as emergency backups now. When I do brew with dry yeast I always start on a stir plate 2 days ahead.

 

[jflongo]

Dry packets are inexpensive but brewing with active live yeast has done a lot for my brewing & I only use dry packs as emergency backups now. When I do brew with dry yeast I always start on a stir plate 2 days ahead.

Interesting, I have always heard to just hydrate dry yeast, not do a starter with it. Dry yeast packs have more yeast in them than liquid.

 

[tphjr]

Interesting, I have always heard to just hydrate dry yeast, not do a starter with it. Dry yeast packs have more yeast in them than liquid.

They do but rehydrated yeast can still take 12 hours or longer to take off. The initial bubbles you see from yeast rehydrating are just from the yeast absorbing water.

 

[solbes]

Funny, I've gone the opposite direction lately. My first batch was dry yeast (Notty). From batches 2-23 all were liquid yeast. Then I had an "emergency" lager issue and threw 2 packes of dry 34/70 in which worked well. I've also used S-04 for two beers, and did a wheat with WB-06. Thinking of trying S-05 as so many rave about it. I guess the majority of my batches are still in liquid form (either Wyeast or cultured Bells).

BTW, I never make starters for dry yeast, I only rehydrate. Those yeast cells have just the right amount of "energy" stored up and are rarin' to go. I pitch 2 packets if the beer's OG warrants it.

 

[Wingnutt73]

So its sounds like Its a go. Just want to make sure but it sounds like I should move the first batch to the secondary then wash the yeast and wait a day or so then pitch it. If that the case I'm game I can rack to a secondary on Friday and brew Saturday. I'm hoping I get a good batch of yeast out of the cake. What I guess would the amount of yeast cultures I should expect to get out of the cake? Like how many jars or starters I should say?

 

[jflongo]

You can easily get a gallon or more out of it if you want, just depends how many times you want to wash it. As a rule of thumb you could boil a gallon of water, cool it down and dump that in. Swirl it around, and then dump a gallon or more into containers. Let that settle then dump it into as many pint size jars as you want. Or you could wash it a second time into 2L or quart size containers, let them settle, then go into pint containers.

Up to you, you can easily get 2 - 6 pint size starters. I normally do 2 or 3, since I don't brew every week. And remember if you want to, you can still harvest yeast from your next batch if you wanted to.

 

[solbes]

Once you skim past the first 1/2 or 2/3 of the slurry you are mostly into the hot/cold break trub. The best stuff is on top. I would say 3 jars max with adding 1-2 cups per jar. Remember, you can also go 2-4 generations easily without siginificant yeast mutation. Eventually you should pony up for fresh yeast as the strain you have no longer matches the strain you bought.

 

[Wingnutt73]

Yeah I will buy yeast again, I just want to try this out and see how it works. Also the batches are almost the same beer so thats why I'm doing it this time. I like the English Ales a lot so I may keep a few jars around for future batches.