Rate this restaurant beer menu.

[JKoravos]

By my own standards, I'd give it a 50. Chimay and Anchor are probably the only two I'd really be excited to order, which is two more than most restaurants, maybe the Four Peaks offering as well, since I'm not familiar with it. Newcastle is a standard 'good beer', but it's generally served overcarbed and too cold (and it's in a bottle, which makes it questionable).

 

[the_bird]

So what's the plan, ollllllllllllllllllllllo? Going into business as a restaurant consultant?

 

[z987k]

I'm going to thow down some local restaurant beer menus and get your reactions for a potential project I'm working on.

Give me your comments and gut reactions and maybe a figure from 1 to 100. I'll post some more later.

Cuisine: Italian

Beers
Tap
Peroni, - Macro lager
Guinness,
Black and Tan,
Mothership Wit,
Bass,
Stella Artois - Macro lager

Bottles
Amstel Light - macro lager
Newcastle
Grolsch Light - macro lager
Anchor Steam
Heineken Light - macro lager
Budweiser macro lager
Bud Light - macro lager
Samuel Adams
Coors Light - macro lager
Fat tire
Karlovačko
Shiner Hefeweizen - pure ****(IMO)
Nikšićko
Red Stripe - macro lager
Okocim
Four Peaks Kiltlifter (local)
Woodchuck Cider
Heineken - macro lager
Chimay Red
Corona - macro lager

about half are essentially the same beer, I can find something to drink in the bottle selection, but I never order bottles at a restaurant, I'd be drinking soda/water here. Probably the Bass if I really wanted a beer.
I give it a 25/100, I have a better tap selection at most of the campus bars.

 

[kornkob]

Food menu >>>>>>>>>>>>> beer menu.
What are Corona and Red Stripe doing on the menu, anyway? This isn't a Mexican or Carribean restaurant. It's very likely that someone who might order a Corona if offered will be perfectly cool with a Bud Light or any of the other domestic offerings. I have no problem with a beer menu having some domestic light-lager types available, but what's the point of those two beers with THIS menu?

Perhaps because it sells? I suspect that you'll find that when an American lager drinker wants to buy something a little 'upscale' they'd look for that corona or red stripe-- stella if they have been exposed to it before so they know what it is. If the bar manager notes that people are asking for a specific beer, then having that beer added to the list is a no-brainer.

Generally, people go to a restaurant for the atmosphere and the food (in that order in my experience--- generally people have a hard time getting over the atmosphere even for really good food-- the best italian beef sandwhich in Madison is at a gas station but I'll be damned if I can get anyone to agree that we shoudl eat dinner at Mobile). What's on the beer or wine list is a secondary consideration for most folks. And if they have too many specialty beers on hand they end up with a bunch of beer that never turns over, whcih isn't good for the beer or the bottom line.

 

[commonlaw]

if I saw that beer list I would drink wine (other than perhaps trying the local beer I never had out of curiosity). It is completely un-interesting to me. The menu, however, looks really tasty.

Get some saison dupont in there (always a good food beer), a good hoppy pilsner (like urquell), maybe an APA or IPA, a bock or doppelbock or something similarly malty, a brown on the sweeter side, and a German wheat beer, and then I'd think you'd have a decent start. The recs for duvel and westmalle (both dubbel and tripel) I would also agree with--both I think are better food beers than the chimay. A wit could also be good. If we are going real adventurous, some sour beers are where it is at. Lambic, berliner weiss, other barrel aged sour beer (I recently had goose island's juliet and thought it was a great food beer). Bier de garde would be another style that would mate well to things on that menu, but it may be harder to find.

 

[griffondg]

Menu looks great but the beer selection, particularly the draft beer selection, is weak. 50/100. I would drink wine.

Eric

 

[Beernip]

My impression is that I would give this list a 70 for just any restaurant. For an Italian restaurant the beer selection is excellent. For me when I go to an ethnic restaurant I was it to maintain it's culture and authenticity. In Italy you looking at light lagers. When I was there you are likely to just see three beers on tap. Peroni, Stella, Moretti, etc.. Then you have the wine list.

Would we expect a German restaurant to carry barleywines or Belgium Abbeys?

 

[olllllo]

if I saw that beer list I would drink wine (other than perhaps trying the local beer I never had out of curiosity).

Menu looks great but the beer selection, particularly the draft beer selection, is weak. 50/100. I would drink wine.

Wine is where all the markup is. Could this be the uber-strategy?

Also this made me angry:

We Proudly Support Local Farmers
Seacat, McClendon, Maya, Singh, Black Mesa Ranch

A good portion of the flavor profiles in beer that we are talking about could be supplied by LOCAL BREWERIES!

 

[olllllo]

Here is the Italian beer they should be serving!

http://www.sheltonbrothers.com/beers/beerProfile.asp?BeerID=162

 

[brewt00l]

Also this made me angry:
A good portion of the flavor profiles in beer that we are talking about could be supplied by LOCAL BREWERIES!

We have a fantastic local place that has taken that buy fresh buy local theme to their beer menu and feature only PA craft beer (and yuengling), enough to warrant a mention in the paper's review
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/craig_laban/20071111_Honey.html

 

[pdbreen]

Here is the Italian beer they should be serving!

http://www.sheltonbrothers.com/beers/beerProfile.asp?BeerID=162

Agreed - any place that would take the time to research and source craft beer that fits the style/theme of the restaurant would get very high marks. But, I realize lack of an importer/distributer may make that impossible.

Maybe that's the angle - start a new import business that focuses on sourcing great beers that can be paired with upscale menus. Make it a no-brainer for the restaurants to get it right - or at least make include some interesting offerings. For me, the story behind a beer can be as compelling as the beer itself.

http://travel.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/travel/02Beer.html

 

[olllllo]

Panil has a disrto (and a good one) here. People just have to order it.

We have a remarkable wealth of beer available and a local craft scene that is under utilized.

 

[the_bird]

There certainly has been a very big movement in foodie circles to eat locally. Even a place like this dinky little lunch spot in our town of a few thousand people that specifically emphasize how they buy their products locally.

You KINDA hear rumblings of it, but it would be great to see more of an emphasis in the beer community on drinking local product as well. Not sure that enough people - even smart people who run distributors and who run liquor stores and who design menus - are aware of the vitues of locally-crafted product. There's great craft beer all around the country - why ship a beer clear across the globe when there's a better beer, in the same style, that's fresher and more flavorful being made fifty miles down the road?

 

[wildwest450]

Where's the hops?

Amen, slightly upscale or not, there should be one or two hoppy selections.

 

[FreakinA]

Go into business as a beer menu consultant. Give ratings of what they have and write a book. Charge a buttload then and make everyone put good beers on tap.

 

[noblesquirrel]

I was going to comment that there is actually a huge craft boom in Italy right now, doing a lot of barrel aging, sours, farmhouse type beers as well. That list is a disgrace to the customer, in my opinion. There is nothing challenging to someone who wants to be challenged. Being in Chicago, they have really started to understand that the clientele has expectations. If you take away the BMCs and they ask for one, you can recommend something better and closer. I've seen this hundreds of times. With the investment that they obviously have regarding the quality of culinary experience they wish to convey, they shouldn't dumb down the beer list. They should take some risks. I'd give the list a D- for effor and about a 20 overall...

Also, to throw this out there to the folks who think this is quality because it caters to 99% of beer drinkers, there is a reason it caters to 99%, that being lack of education. If they are willing to challenge their palates with food and wine, why not beer?

 

[TexLaw]

I give the menu around a 70. It's solid, well above average (as restaurants go), fairly appropriate to the venue, and just about anyone who walks in will find something they enjoy (even if not what they would most like). It's far from downright "good," though, and even farther from "excellent."

The fact that they have many similar beers is not nearly as important as the variety they do have. The guy is running a business, and he wants to have the beer his customers order. I imagine I could be quite happy going in there and ordering a SNPA, Newcastle, Anchor Steam, Sam Adams, or even Guinness (although more likely with dessert). I do get a bit concerned about seeing a zillion different beers in a place that largely sells wine, though, as I worry about turnover and freshness of the inventory.

It is a shame there is not a good hefeweizen on there. The Shiner is just not good, and the Mothership Wit is not a good substitute. A good German (or German style) hefeweizen often is remarkably good with food.

As far as all the hops go, that's a risky venture for many restaurants. Despite what we see around these parts (being HBT), there aren't a whole heck of a lot of folks that like very hoppy beers, and there are fewer of them that like them with food.

By the way, I don't find a 70 as a good score. It's barely passing. As I said before - solid, better than average (and average would score a 50 -- this ain't school grading), and with selections that would appeal on some level to just about everyone that would walk in. I'd go to this place, but it wouldn't be for the beer.


TL

 

[kornkob]

By the way, I don't find a 70 as a good score. It's barely passing. As I said before - solid, better than average (and average would score a 50 -- this ain't school grading), and with selections that would appeal on some level to just about everyone that would walk in. I'd go to this place, but it wouldn't be for the beer.


TL

Which is the problem with 'ratings' in general-- unless the system is clearly defined the number is meaningless.

Might be interesting to have a discussion where developing a 'beer menu' rating system is the goal.

 

[the_bird]

The fact that they have many similar beers is not nearly as important as the variety they do have. The guy is running a business, and he wants to have the beer his customers order. I imagine I could be quite happy going in there and ordering a SNPA, Newcastle, Anchor Steam, Sam Adams, or even Guinness (although more likely with dessert). I do get a bit concerned about seeing a zillion different beers in a place that largely sells wine, though, as I worry about turnover and freshness of the inventory.

There's no SNPA on there, or equivalent. Several of us have mentioned that as a pretty bad oversights. APA is a pretty mainstream style - not having something like an SNPA (or a locally-brewed pale ale) available is worth probably ten points on this scale to me.

 

[DRoyLenz]

It's been said before (but not by me ) so I'm going to say it in my own words.

On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being 'Only serves Bud Light directly from the can', 10 being 'Draft and Bottle Menu that caters to all global regions, microbrews and styles of beer' and 5 being average, I'd give this a 6. Their going to have an impressive looking list, but when you actually drill down in to it, you realize there isn't much variety at all. Almost all light lagers.

I'd ask 'from what perspective?' But you came to HBT to ask for our opinion, so I'm going to give you my opinion as a beer-lover, home-brewer, and HBTer. I would pass this place up, and not think twice about it. When I'm looking for a good restaurant, I almost always go on the web to find out what beers they have available. If they don't have a beer list on the menu, that usually tells me they don't care enough about their beer to advertise it, so I don't bother. If I saw this list on the menu, I'd move on.

What I would really like to see is if they took their Four Peaks presence one step forward. I think it would be very cool if they had a good relationship with the brewery (or at least the distro company) and had MANY of their beers on tap, including a few rotating seasonals. Also make sure the waitstaff and bartenders are well informed on AT LEAST those beers, and are able to make pairing suggestions, and talk about the beers to people who are interested. It'd be nice if they could have that kind of knowledge on all the beers, but that may be asking a lot of most restaurants. People like to consume local products. If I were to go in to a restaurant, ask for a recommendation, and the server pointed out that they carried a large selection of a local brewery, I would be MUCH more inclined to experiment with that.

But, it sounds like they are more concerned with their wine and food (which is fine, but not for discussion IMO on HBT).

 

[TexLaw]

There's no SNPA on there, or equivalent. Several of us have mentioned that as a pretty bad oversights. APA is a pretty mainstream style - not having something like an SNPA (or a locally-brewed pale ale) available is worth probably ten points on this scale to me.

Whoops. I got it confused with the other menu. Mark me down to a 60, with the oversight you pointed out as another serious flaw. Thanks.


TL

 

[MBasile]

50 - for mainly corporate beer and nothing terribly interesting - surprised not to see SNPA on a list like that

Tap selection seems a bit ordinary/boring. Drop the black & tan and maybe add a seasonal? And, switch the Peroni to bottles to free up another tap - Italian's aren't really known for their beer.

The bottle selection also seems very mainstream (though there are a few I've never heard of). I'd mix in some selections from Sierra Nevada, Dogfish Head, Brooklyn, Harpoon.

On beer selection along, I'd give it a 40 - it's not a place I would go to for beer.

I agree with both of these. I'd love to see some SNPA, even if just in the bottle. On tap nothing really sings to me. If it was for an Italian place I'm guessing a little higher than normal pricing which means since there are none of my "go to" beers (Guinness is good, but I don't think I'd like it with spaghetti or lasagna) I'd probably just order a soda pop.

 

[ThickHead]

I give the menu around a 70. It's solid, well above average (as restaurants go), fairly appropriate to the venue, and just about anyone who walks in will find something they enjoy (even if not what they would most like). It's far from downright "good," though, and even farther from "excellent."

The fact that they have many similar beers is not nearly as important as the variety they do have. The guy is running a business, and he wants to have the beer his customers order. I imagine I could be quite happy going in there and ordering a SNPA, Newcastle, Anchor Steam, Sam Adams, or even Guinness (although more likely with dessert). I do get a bit concerned about seeing a zillion different beers in a place that largely sells wine, though, as I worry about turnover and freshness of the inventory.

It is a shame there is not a good hefeweizen on there. The Shiner is just not good, and the Mothership Wit is not a good substitute. A good German (or German style) hefeweizen often is remarkably good with food.

As far as all the hops go, that's a risky venture for many restaurants. Despite what we see around these parts (being HBT), there aren't a whole heck of a lot of folks that like very hoppy beers, and there are fewer of them that like them with food.

By the way, I don't find a 70 as a good score. It's barely passing. As I said before - solid, better than average (and average would score a 50 -- this ain't school grading), and with selections that would appeal on some level to just about everyone that would walk in. I'd go to this place, but it wouldn't be for the beer.

TL

I pretty much agree with this assessment. In all honesty I never drink beer if I am eating out Italian (not "an" Italian). But then again, I am also a HUGE fan of wine and generally believe that it pairs better with food than beer in most fine dining. Now snack-food, that's a different animal all together.

Somewhere between 60-65 in my book. But I never expect too much from establishments that do not primarily specialize in alchoholic beverages. Having said that, if I were to crave a beer and I were at this place I would find one I could enjoy. But certainly nothing that would cause me to tell my friends about the great beer I had at the Italian place.

 

[ian-atx]

I haven't been around this site in a while, and also usually lurk..but this is an interesting thread.

Beer selection in restaurants is really interesting, and given this is a nice Italian place, I would definitely expect a focus on good wine. But still, they could cut that beer list in half or more, move all the BMC garbage to bottles and leave the taps for local beers, including any that are belgian-style or otherwise 'fancy' or pair well with the food. They cover the people that only drink BMC, and also offer choice to people that are locally minded (in line with the menu) or willing to try something different.

There are places that are starting to do this in austin, and it is great when you can get a nice local (or otherwise good) beer with your dinner if you are not feeling wine. Plus it tends to get the message across that the owners/manager are looking at all aspects, not just trying to drive sales to one part or the other.

 

[MBasile]

I pretty much agree with this assessment. In all honesty I never drink beer if I am eating out Italian (not "an" Italian). But then again, I am also a HUGE fan of wine and generally believe that it pairs better with food than beer in most fine dining. Now snack-food, that's a different animal all together.

Somewhere between 60-65 in my book. But I never expect too much from establishments that do not primarily specialize in alchoholic beverages. Having said that, if I were to crave a beer and I were at this place I would find one I could enjoy. But certainly nothing that would cause me to tell my friends about the great beer I had at the Italian place.

26 beers seems like a lot for a place that isn't putting much focus on alcohol. I also say cut some of the more obscure ones if you want the focus to be on the food, and replace them with popular american craft brews. Or, if you're going to have all of the competing American lagers, why isn't Bier Moretti on there to compete with Peroni?

 

[JKoravos]

Here we go...

0: No beer
10: BMC, bottles only
20: BMC on draft, standard bottles, Heiny, Stella
30: BMC, maybe an upscale BMC, on draft, Nothing useful in bottles
40: Something besides BMC on draft, Guinness, SA, SNPA, etc.
50: A coupla crafts on draft, a few good bottles, maybe a local.
60: Enough on draft that beer geeks don't contemplate a different beverage, something beyond SNPA, SA BL, Guinness, etc.
70: Bare minimum for beer geek enjoyment, at least of couple of solid crafts on draft. One or two, hard to find beers/style. RIS, IIPA, etc.
80: Solid beer menu, loaded with craft offerings on tap, plus a few solid bottles, Belgians a plus.
90: 25+ taps, approaching 3 digits in bottles. Lots of regional, national and imports. Beer geeks are happier than a pig in poop staring at the offerings
100: Enough selection to get you loaded every night for a month without having the same beer twice. Lots of hard/impossible to find stuff. Any one of us would live under the bar if the owner offered.

 

[ThickHead]

Another thing I didn't think about initially is that there is only a single local choice, and it's in a bottle. Having said that, at least there is something local but I have a hard time giving this place much more than an average score without a better local showing. AZ probably has close to, if not more than, 20 craft breweries.

 

[springer]

its a pretty good list does miss the mark with relatively no darker beers .I would say 65 to 70 on a scale of 100



But then again any good Italian eatery is going to be known for its wine not beer ... I don't even look at beer when I eat in upscale Italian .

 

[msl]

I would agree that the list is no great shakes. A lot more could be done with it to really push the envelope on what beers might be beautiful with the food, rather than what someone might ask for. Sure, the restaurant might once in a while get a customer who wants a Corona, but must he be served one?

For comparison and discussion, here's the beer list from Insieme, an Italian restaurant in NYC. The list is put together by Paul Grieco, who is Mr. Awesome when it comes to wine, and seems to have found some interesting beer choices as well. The notes on the list are Grieco's.

Hofstentten, Kubelbier, Austira —16.9oz— 15.00
-an unfiltered Pilsner that reminds you of organic wine: funky, yet highly quaffable
Flying Dog, Tire Bite Golden Ale, Colorado 7.50
-if the Allies had their way, this is what the Krauts would be toasting in Cologne

Brasserie Dupont Saison, Foret, Belgium —750ml— 42.00
-a top fermented beer with herbaceous notes, strong bitter hops
and holistically thirst quenching
Fritz Bream, 1809 Berliner Weiss, Germany —16oz— 19.00
-what Napoleon’s troops called the Champagne of beer, this Berliner Weiss is refreshing, tart and acidic,
with and a lemony-citric finish

Ayinger, UR-Weisse, Germany—16.9oz— 14.50
-a Bavarian dark wheat ale that will instigate salubrious thoughts
Southern Tier, Hop Sun, New York 8.00
-floral and spicy, this wheat beer is tranquil and refreshing

Ridgeway Brewing, Ridgeway Brewing, England —16.9oz— 18.00
-we will allow this hoppy-bitter, smooth operator, into the IPA category
as it hunts for an accepted identity
Ballast Point, Big Eye IPA, California 9.50
-just North of the heart of San Diego, the IPA here rivals anything from across the pond

Colomba, Biere Blanche, Corsica 13.00
-fermented with Mediterranean spices and herbs, this white ale reflects charm and refinement
Grado Plato, Strada S. Felice Amber Ale, Piedmont—16.9oz— 24.00
-brewed with chestnuts, this ale is harmonious and charming

Lindemans Lambic, Cassis, Belgium 18.00
-substitute black currants for apples and you have the perfect Lambic to ward off the last strains of winter

Einbecker Non-Alcoholic, Germany 7.50

-----------
In case you're interested, other great beer lists I've seen, but are too long to post, include Resto, which is known for its Belgian beer (http://restonyc.com/drink.asp?id=beer) and Gramercy Tavern (http://www.gramercytavern.com/), which has a very interesting vintage beer and cider list.

 

[pericles]

That's an interesting bottle menu. But I can buy bottles and drink them at home. And if I'm at a restaurant, I don't particularly feel classy drinking a bottled beer. Over all I'd give this a 50%. The low score is for (1) the small tap, (2) the lack of standards on tap - I don't drink much BMC, but plenty of other people do. You need at least one, and Stella doesn't count. And what compounds the problem is that (3) there's nothing on your bottle list that really excites me.

I think you're taking the wrong approach to the tap/bottle division. The tap is for the beers that people are going to drink a lot of, and where you'll see a lot of turn-over. Bottles are for more expensive specialty beers that you can cellar for a year or two. (In my opinion.)