Rate this restaurant beer menu.

[remilard]

I would agree that the list is no great shakes. A lot more could be done with it to really push the envelope on what beers might be beautiful with the food, rather than what someone might ask for. Sure, the restaurant might once in a while get a customer who wants a Corona, but must he be served one?

For comparison and discussion, here's the beer list from Insieme, an Italian restaurant in NYC. The list is put together by Paul Grieco, who is Mr. Awesome when it comes to wine, and seems to have found some interesting beer choices as well. The notes on the list are Grieco's.

Hofstentten, Kubelbier, Austira —16.9oz— 15.00
-an unfiltered Pilsner that reminds you of organic wine: funky, yet highly quaffable
Flying Dog, Tire Bite Golden Ale, Colorado 7.50
-if the Allies had their way, this is what the Krauts would be toasting in Cologne

Brasserie Dupont Saison, Foret, Belgium —750ml— 42.00
-a top fermented beer with herbaceous notes, strong bitter hops
and holistically thirst quenching
Fritz Bream, 1809 Berliner Weiss, Germany —16oz— 19.00
-what Napoleon’s troops called the Champagne of beer, this Berliner Weiss is refreshing, tart and acidic,
with and a lemony-citric finish

Ayinger, UR-Weisse, Germany—16.9oz— 14.50
-a Bavarian dark wheat ale that will instigate salubrious thoughts
Southern Tier, Hop Sun, New York 8.00
-floral and spicy, this wheat beer is tranquil and refreshing

Ridgeway Brewing, Ridgeway Brewing, England —16.9oz— 18.00
-we will allow this hoppy-bitter, smooth operator, into the IPA category
as it hunts for an accepted identity
Ballast Point, Big Eye IPA, California 9.50
-just North of the heart of San Diego, the IPA here rivals anything from across the pond

Colomba, Biere Blanche, Corsica 13.00
-fermented with Mediterranean spices and herbs, this white ale reflects charm and refinement
Grado Plato, Strada S. Felice Amber Ale, Piedmont—16.9oz— 24.00
-brewed with chestnuts, this ale is harmonious and charming

Lindemans Lambic, Cassis, Belgium 18.00
-substitute black currants for apples and you have the perfect Lambic to ward off the last strains of winter

Einbecker Non-Alcoholic, Germany 7.50

-----------
In case you're interested, other great beer lists I've seen, but are too long to post, include Resto, which is known for its Belgian beer (http://restonyc.com/drink.asp?id=beer) and Gramercy Tavern (http://www.gramercytavern.com/), which has a very interesting vintage beer and cider list.

Those prices are around 400% of retail.

 

[FreakinA]

Omg those prices hurt my head!

 

[Zen_Brew]

Omg those prices hurt my head!

Yeah, that is Manhattan prices for ya. Definitely an expensive place to dine.

Love the rasserie Dupont Saison, Foret, Belgium —750ml— 42.00

-a top fermented beer with herbaceous notes, strong bitter hops
and holistically thirst quenching

For $42 a bottle it better be holistically quenching, maybe even orgasmic.

 

[msl]

Well, right. It's a wine list at a fancy restaurant in New York -- that's a pretty standard markup for wine. Commercial rents are expensive in Manhattan!

The beverage program at Insieme is catnip for wine geeks, and beer isn't the focus of it, as you eagle-eyed readers have surmised. But I would bet that if you buttonholed the sommelier he could tell you which beers would go with your food and why they were chosen, just the same as any wine. This is not what you'd get with the list that ollllo posted, and why I thought it was worth bringing to your attention.

I was mostly interested in posting the list as an example of an ambitious Italian restaurant with a thoughtful beverage director who treats beer with the same respect he gives wine, if not the same exhaustive treatment. I couldn't think of any other Italian restaurant with a list posted on the Internet that does something similar, though there probably is -- does anyone else know of any?

 

[Steelers77]

For those who think Italy knows nothing about beer.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/17/WIHK10HN10.DTL

 

[Ksosh]

Well, right. It's a wine list at a fancy restaurant in New York -- that's a pretty standard markup for wine. Commercial rents are expensive in Manhattan!

Albany, NY, Olive Garden
A bottle of wine can still run 300% more than retail for the same/similar wine, and rent here isn't even close to NYC. They had a moscato wine for $7/glass, when a large bottle of a very similar wine (if not the same?) isn't more than $10.

 

[olllllo]

I was mostly interested in posting the list as an example of an ambitious Italian restaurant with a thoughtful beverage director who treats beer with the same respect he gives wine, if not the same exhaustive treatment. I couldn't think of any other Italian restaurant with a list posted on the Internet that does something similar, though there probably is -- does anyone else know of any?

My thought is that high end restaurants should take the above approach. My guess is Hensley, the AB distributor, "handled" it.

Thanks for breaking the seal and posting msl.

 

[z987k]

My thought is that high end restaurants should take the above approach. My guess is Hensley, the AB distributor, "handled" it.

Thanks for breaking the seal and posting msl.

I find that's how a lot of places do it... just let the largest BMC distributor in town take care of it... and what you end up with is 57 different variations of the exact same thing.
Sometimes you can even tell who their main distributor is just by looking at the tap selection.

 

[BA_from_GA]

I'd say 50-60 range. Honestly i'd probably just order a glass of wine with that selection. then again, i always end up comparing all beer lists to the Brick Store , so it's not really fair.

 

[springer]

Those prices are around 400% of retail.

and their rent is most likely around 15-20 k a month in a nice area

Albany, NY, Olive Garden
A bottle of wine can still run 300% more than retail for the same/similar wine, and rent here isn't even close to NYC. They had a moscato wine for $7/glass, when a large bottle of a very similar wine (if not the same?) isn't more than $10.

umm and a plate of spaghetti is like 1000% more than store bought. You have to take into account rent -insurance -taxes-water -gas - electric- workmans comp payroll.

And any place that serves wine beer or alcohol in NY cannot just walk into a liquor store and buy it . You have to by from a state approved distributor this way the state tracks all your booze and the tax you need to pay on it .The price is set buy the state on the booze also . You could call any one of the I think three distributors and the price is the same . Beer must also be bought directly from the distributor and not the local beer store

I went into Sam's for our annual block party and bought about 20 cases of beer I had to sign an affidavit that I was not buying for a bar . This got sent to the NY state liquor authority who did follow up on it by sending an investigator to home. I told them it was a private party and we had a permit to close the street . And it was have a nice day.

 

[carnevoodoo]

That first list posted is boring. It is a smattering of beers from a lot of places with fancy sounding names, and they all come back as boring to me. Sure, there's Chimay Red. Big deal. I give it a 50-55. It isn't trying any harder than any normal restaurant. There's an Italian place in my neighborhood that has an 80-100 long list of bottles. Of course, I rate them at about a 10 out of 100 because of how the beer is treated, but I've seen more impressive. I want a good, fresh local variety.

that second list with the 42 dollar bottle of Saison Dupont is something that doesn't surprise me. I've seen a few pretty good restaurants price their beer the same way they price their wine. I personally think this is a huge mistake as the perceptions of the two products are not nearly the same. Beer has historically been a more accessible product because of the price tag, and wine people are known for spending more on their beverage of choice. I think a blind, across the board markup of beverages is ridiculous.

 

[humann_brewing]

Here is the next one to rate. This is a steak house:

Brews on Tap

Northwest Microbrews
Mac & Jack’s African Amber, Redmond, Washington 6.
Mac & Jack’s IPA, Redmond, Washington 6.
Pyramid Hefeweizen, Kalama, Washington 6.
Metropolitan Grill Amber Ale 6.
Maritime Seasonal Selection, Seattle, Washington 6.
Manny’s Pale Ale, Seattle, Washington 6.
Alaskan Brewing Co. Seasonal Ales, Juneau, Alaska 6.

Domestic & Import Drafts
Miller Lite, Milwaukee, Wisconsin 5.
Budweiser, St. Louis, Missouri 5.
Amstel Light, Amsterdam, The Netherlands 6.
Samuel Adams Seasonal Selection 6.
New Belgium Seasonal Selection 6.
Guinness Stout, Dublin, Ireland 7.

Premium Import Drafts
Pilsner Urquell, Czech Republic 7.
Stella Artois, Leuven, Belgium 7.
Hoegaarden White, Hoegaarden, Belgium 7.
Leffe, Abbaye de Leffe, Dinant, Belgium 7.

Bottled Beers
Bass Ale, England 6.
Beck’s, Germany 5.
Bud Light, USA 4.
Coors Light, USA 4.
Corona, Mexico 5.
Dos Equis Lager, Mexico 5.
Deschutes Black Butte Porter, USA 5.
Haake–Beck Non–Alcohol, Germany 5.
Harp, Ireland 5.
Heineken, The Netherlands 5.
Miller Genuine Draft, USA 4.
Newcastle Brown Ale, England 5.
Peroni, Italy 5.
Rainier, USA 4.

 

[carnevoodoo]

Here is the next one to rate. This is a steak house:

I'd give them a 75. I can't quite give them any higher because their draft lists are fairly atrocious, but I do like the list of beers on the Northwest list. I could drink here without too much issue, but I see nothing that makes me think, "OH HELL YES!"

 

[humann_brewing]

I'd give them a 75. I can't quite give them any higher because their draft lists are fairly atrocious, but I do like the list of beers on the Northwest list. I could drink here without too much issue, but I see nothing that makes me think, "OH HELL YES!"

I agree, it seems like they are trying to please everyone enough to keep them there but it is certainly not a beer mecca

 

[carnevoodoo]

I agree, it seems like they are trying to please everyone enough to keep them there but it is certainly not a beer mecca

Their import draft list gets a 25. Sucks.

 

[humann_brewing]

This one should fare pretty well. Bar and Grill

BEERS
160 BEERS ON TAP

AMERICAN LAGERS
Cold Fermented, Clean Flavor
BUD LIGHT
SAM ADAMS BOSTON LAGER

ALES
Top Fermented at Warmer Temperatures
ALASKAN AMBER
ANCHOR STEAM
ANDERSON VALLEY “BOONT”
AVERY HOG HEAVEN BARLEY WINE
BOULDER HAZED AND INFUSED
BOUNDARY BAY DRY-HOPPED AMBER
FISH TALE ORGANIC AMBER
FULL SAIL AMBER
GEORGETOWN CHOPPER RED ALE
HOOD CANAL AGATE PASS AMBER
MAC & JACK’S AFRICAN AMBER
MACTARNAHAN’S AMBER
MARITIME NIGHTWATCH
MENDOCINO EYE OF THE HAWK
NEW BELGIUM FAT TIRE
ROGUE DEAD GUY ALE
STONE BREWERY ARROGANT BASTARD

BELGIANS/BELGIAN STYLES
Keg Conditioned, Malt Forward Ales
CORSENDONK PALE*
DUCHESSE DE BOURGOGNE*
HOEGAARDEN WHITE BEER*
LEFFE BLONDE*
LINDEMANS FRAMBOISE*
NEW BELGIUM 1554*
NORTH COAST BROTHER THELONIOUS*
NORTH COAST PRANQSTER*
UNIBROUE BLANCHE DE CHAMBLY*
UNIBROUE MAUDITE*

BITTERS
English Born Ales withth Highgh Presence of Hops
ELYSIAN “THE WISE” ESB
FULLER’S ESB
REDHOOK ESB
ROGUE BRUTAL BITTER

BLONDES
Top Fermented, Light Color and Body
SCUTTLEBUTT BLONDE

BOCKS
Bottom Fermented, High Malt Flavor, Sweet Finish
AYINGER CELEBRATOR DOPPLEBOCK
SHINER BOCK
SPATEN “HELLES” BOCK
SPATEN OPTIMATOR
WEIHENSTEPHANER KORBINIAN

BROWN ALES
Medium Body, Dry, Slight Hop Flavor
BIG SKY MOOSE DROOL ALE
IRON HORSE BRASS ASS BROWN
NEWCASTLE BROWN ALE
ROGUE HAZELNUT BROWN NECTAR


FRUITS/CIDERS
Crisp, Refreshing, Fruity Sweetness
PYRAMID APRICOT ALE
SPIRE APPLE CIDER
WYDERS PEAR CIDER

INDIA PALE ALES
Extra Hops, Increased Alcohol Content
ANDERSON VALLEY HOP OTTIN’ IPA
BEAR REPUBLIC HOP ROD RYE
BOUNDARY BAY IPA
DIAMOND KNOT INDUSTRIAL IPA
DOGFISH HEAD 90 MIN IPA
ELYSIAN “THE IMMORTAL” IPA
HALES MONGOOSE IPA
LAGUNITAS IPA
MARITIME IMPERIAL IPA
PIKE IPA
SKAGIT RIVER SCULLERS IPA
SNOQUALMIE FALLS WILDCAT IPA
SOUTHERN TIER IMPERIAL UNEARTHLY IPA
STONE RUINATION IPA

LAGERS
Bottom Fermented, Crisp Flavor
AMSTEL LIGHT
BARON SCHWARZBIER
BECKS
BIRRA MORETTI
CARLSBERG
DOS EQUIS SPECIAL LAGER
FOSTERS
HARP
HB HOFBRAUHAUS ORIGINAL
HEINEKEN
KINGFISHER INDIAN LAGER
KIRIN ICHIBAN
KRONENBOURG 1664
O.K. BEER
ROSLYN BROOKSIDE LAGER
SPATEN LAGER
STELLA ARTOIS

PALE ALES
Hop Forward Flavor with Moderate Maltiness
ALASKAN PALE ALE
BASS ALE
BIG SKY SCAPE GOAT ALE
BODDINGTONS PUB ALE (N)
DESCHUTES MIRROR POND PALE ALE
FULL SAIL PALE ALE
GEORGETOWN MANNYS PALE ALE
HALE’S CREAM ALE (N)
KONA FIRE ROCK PALE ALE
SIERRA NEVADA PALE
SNOQUALMIE COPPERHEAD
TETLEY’S ALE (N)

PILSNERS
Moderate Hops, Golden Color
BARON PILSNER
GEORGETOWN ROGER’S PILSNER
KRUSOVICE IMPERIAL
MARITIME PORTAGE BAY PILSNER
NORTH COAST SCRIMSHAW PILSNER
PILSNER URQUELL
WARSTEINER PILSNER

PORTERS
DESCHUTES BLACK BUTTE PORTER
FISH TALE MUDSHARK PORTER
MAC & JACK’S BLACKCAT PORTER
ROGUE MOCHA PORTER
SNOQUALMIE STEAM TRAIN PORTER
STONE SMOKED PORTER

SCOTTISH ALES
Medium Bodied, Malty Caramel Flavored
BOUNDARY BAY SCOTCH
PIKE KILT LIFTER SCOTTISH STYLE

STOUTS
Heavily Roasted Malts Balanced with Extra Hops
ALASKAN OATMEAL STOUT
ANDERSON VALLEY BARNEY FLATS OATMEAL
DESCHUTES OBSIDIAN STOUT
ELYSIAN DRAGONS TOOTH STOUT
GUINNESS STOUT (N)
MURPHY’S IRISH STOUT (N)
NORTH COAST OLD RASPUTIN IMPERIAL (N)
ROGUE SHAKESPEARE STOUT (N)
YOUNG’S DOUBLE CHOCOLATE STOUT (N)

WHEATS/WEIZENS
Light Refreshing Ales; Dark to Crystal
AYINGER BRAU-WEISSE
BIG AL’S ABBEY WHEAT
BLUE MOON BELGIAN
FRANZISKANER WEISSBIER
HACKER- PSCHORR
LAZY BOY HEFE
LEAVENWORTH BOULDER BEND DUNKEL
LEAVENWORTH WHISTLING PIG HEFE
MARITIME CLIPPER GOLD HEFE
PYRAMID HEFE
WIDMER HEFE

 

[humann_brewing]

^^^^

oh yeah and I would rate it a 99 just because they are missing a couple of my favs

 

[carnevoodoo]

This one should fare pretty well. Bar and Grill

I give them an 88. Lots of beers, but nothing that isn't standard fare from each of those breweries. 160 taps doesn't impress me as much as 25 well selected taps. I'd again be curious as to their cleaning schedule.

And that's on beer alone. If it is some sort of yuppie ****hole like Yard House, I won't set foot in there.

 

[Thakog]

Humann- that steakhouse list was awful... maybe a 30-40?

A steak house has bottled black butte porter and that's it for dark beers? Sorry, I can get that at applebee's.

 

[carnevoodoo]

Humann- that steakhouse list was awful... maybe a 30-40?

A steak house has bottled black butte porter and that's it for dark beers? Sorry, I can get that at applebee's.

But if you consider a "normal" restaurant, the list isn't terrible. Just about average. none of these places are beer meccas or anything.

 

[Thakog]

That is true- they just haven't tried to match their food with their beer as well as they could. Plus, just like the Italian restaurant , they have the general public to consider-not just homebrewers.

There's a great beer & wine pairing book, "He Said Beer, She Said Wine" out there that does all kinds of pairings, cheeses, meats, chocolate cakes and everything in between.

 

[carnevoodoo]

That is true- they just haven't tried to match their food with their beer as well as they could. Plus, just like the Italian restaurant , they have the general public to consider-not just homebrewers.

There's a great beer & wine pairing book, "He Said Beer, She Said Wine" out there that does all kinds of pairings, cheeses, meats, chocolate cakes and everything in between.

Yeah. Tasting Beer goes into it, and The Brewmaster's Table goes pretty extensively into it as well. I'm a fan of reading about it.

And really, I'd rather have an IPA or a pale with a steak, but that's just me.